The end of LiveCode as we know it.

[richmond62]

Classic will go into maintenance mode after we ship version 10. It will receive no new features but will have bug fixes and we will maintain compatibility with supported operating systems until 2027.

https://future.livecode.com/faq/

Is it safe to assume that these forums will remain open for those who continue to use LiveCode as a reference source?

[dunbarx]

Richmond.

It is change, but not the end of the world.

I may one day fool around with Create, but am not sure I will ever migrate over. For one thing, I do not need fancy control layouts or spiffy "art" objects in anything I make, though I bet others cannot wait for those sorts of things, and I hope it attracts legions of new users.

Anyway, I am taking LC at their word when they say one can completely ignore the Create world as if it never existed, and live entirely in Classic. I already ignore widgets, to the extent that long ago I deleted them (along with all paint tools) from the toolbar. I just don't need them. It will be the same in three years...

Craig

[stam]

Random thoughts, in no particular order:

1. Create is not ready for prime time and judging by its current state, I cannot see this being fit for commercial use for a while.
2. Create Universal has a "switch to classic" menu item, which basically just launches the current IDE / LC 10
3. All things change. Nothing stays the same, as we've all seen in our older years.
4. "Widgets" is a wide definition. Keep in mind that in some other languages this just means controls (eg button, field etc). Everything is now a widget.
5. Create has a nicer system for automatic resizing/repositioning that is more robust and this actually works at present.
6. An LC 10 licence will not work past 2027 according to current statements. "Classic" interface (ie the current one) will probably persist in Create
7. Embrace change. Or switch to alternatives. Or stagnate.
8. I don't enjoy the current Create interface - but expect this to greatly improve. At present, I would not really recommend using unless out of curiosity and/or have a 32' screen. It's unusable on a 16' screen at present. No "single window" has been implemented yet, they simulate this by having palette's that are fixed in size and cannot be closed. Again I expect this to improve in the near future.
9. Create has the potential to greatly reduce time it takes to do simple tasks in LC (not talking about AI here). It's still pure LC code.
10. Not sure how they'll implement key features in Create - like substacks etc. I can't see a way to edit multiple stacks in parallel or have substacks in Create, unless I've missed it. This would be a problem for all of us I think. Possibly one of the reasons "Classic" will persist.
11. Good time to start learning something new; Flutter and Python are cross-platform, free and accessible with a ton of learning resources available online and gratis. I've paid for Universal, but I'm also on the path of learning Python because while Create seems promising, I have no way of knowing if the final product will suit me. And it's always good to learn new things. At the very least it's made me appreciate LiveCodeScript even more.

[simon.schvartzman]

Create is not ready for prime time and judging by its current state, I cannot see this being fit for commercial use for a while.

I fully agree, I have paid for the current offer but I have the feeling I paid for a promise...

In my view ,the least thing LC could do, is to start counting the license time once the actual (useful) product is made available.

Kevin, waiting for your answer!!!

[stam]

I fully agree, I have paid for the current offer but I have the feeling I paid for a promise...

No, it's more like we paid to joint a closed beta test. Or is that an alpha test, since new features are still being added?

In my view ,the least thing LC could do, is to start counting the license time once the actual (useful) product is made available.

I agree, but don't see that happening judging by policies so far.

[richmond62]

This is just LiveCode behaving as they always have . . .

[dunbarx]

Greg wrote:

My biggest worry is substacks in Create...

I have read about this subStack issue. Is it true that every project can live in only one stack? Why? Is it something to do with the Create "IDE", that can support only one? One must then integrate and manage multiple separate stacks as a "workaround"?

Say it ain't so.

Craig

[Klaus]

Moderator's notice:
Mr. Robo. erm Greg Ward is OUT!

[Emily-Elizabeth]

Moderator's notice:
Mr. Robo. erm Greg Ward is OUT!

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! Guess it's back to talking to real people

[richmond62]

If CREATE won't allow substacks that is a step backwards all the way to HyperCard.

[richmond62]

CREATE is, indeed, the end of LiveCode as 'we' know it, in much the sameway as MacOS X was not the same as MacOSes 7, 8, and 9.

LiveCode 'as we know it' changed its appearance quite a lot between Runtime Revolution 1.0 and LiveCode 9.6., even that 'as we know it' is a bit odd.

Similarly, MacOS X, up until version 4, allowed one to go on using pre-X stuff.

Most people adapted fairly quickly to MacOS X, and I very much doubt many people still use MacOS 9 on a regular basis (I use it about once a month for poking around in old HyperCard stacks and checking what RunRev 1.1 and 2.0 were capable of).

No one, as far as I am aware has developed a faux MacOS 10.

What LC now call 'Classic' IS alive and kicking 'across the road' in at least 2 versions.

So there is no case of 'adapt or die', but there is a choice of 'adapt to use CREATE, or use one of the alternatives', so no one really should be complaining.

[stam]

I’ll be honest, the end of xxx as we know it applies to most small platforms.

AI will put all these platforms out of professional work. Why faff with some intermediary for a cross platform code base, when a simple set of commands to Claude Code will write the app for you in no time.

In less than a working day, I got Claude Code to help me build an iOS app in SwiftUI and the same app for Android in Kotlin/Compose. End result: good looking, extremely functional, completely native apps, no half-way Motif houses.

Yes, you need a Claude subscription that comes to the same as say LCC, but the tooling is completely free. I’ve never built a polished app so quickly, let alone using platforms I’m not familiar with.

It’s not full auto and can’t be left unsupervised and non-coders will probably not get anything sensible out of it, but if you know what you’re doing and direct iteratively, it’s easy to get very quick, very good results.

And the best part: the apps work forever even if you subscription lapses, because these are built in the free mainstream languages where AIs have a much more solid grounding and much smaller risk of confabulating.

It’s fun to code and there can be a sense I’d achievement, but with 1-2 hours after midnight 2-3 days a week max, it’s impossible for me to code a full app in less than 6-12 months. Using Claude code I can build a full app within 2-3 hours. Of course for more complex apps this will take longer but for 90% of use cases AI just flattens the curve instantly.

AI chatbots are toys, but Claude Code and Codex are game changers for coding. . It’s going to be very difficult to justify the cost of a license in the near future - the whole need for a single x-plat app x in language y!

I for one bow down to our AI overlords!