Mac OS X dev: Rev or X Code / Python ?
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Mac OS X dev: Rev or X Code / Python ?
I have really confused myself as to which direction to take with my personal development project, and would like to enquire as to what tools would best fit my needs. That is: A Mac-only application that uses a local SQLite data store and performs queries on that data, with the capability to upload files to a web server. Also, the application should be able to access the MySQL data store on the server and allow read/write changes to that information (not via a web browser). (Replacing the necessity for AJAX coding.)
Consequently, I have considered Revolution and was evaluating it by browsing the manual. The major drawback for me, though, is cost -- not only the cost of Revolution but the costs of 3rd party add-on products. I'm planning a personal use application; not a commercial one -- no way to recoup the costs.
This led me to consider alternatives for OS X development that would eliminate and/or minimize the cost to develop my personal application. Of course, X Code is free. As for the language, I was considering Python or Ruby as the main scripting language (FREE).
It may be difficult to obtain an unbiased opinion here, but are there any experienced developers who can help provide some direction?
Thanks in advance!
Consequently, I have considered Revolution and was evaluating it by browsing the manual. The major drawback for me, though, is cost -- not only the cost of Revolution but the costs of 3rd party add-on products. I'm planning a personal use application; not a commercial one -- no way to recoup the costs.
This led me to consider alternatives for OS X development that would eliminate and/or minimize the cost to develop my personal application. Of course, X Code is free. As for the language, I was considering Python or Ruby as the main scripting language (FREE).
It may be difficult to obtain an unbiased opinion here, but are there any experienced developers who can help provide some direction?
Thanks in advance!
Re: Mac OS X dev: Rev or X Code / Python ?
redpill...
'You pay your money and you make your choice'... (Well, perhaps not in your case
)
The database libraries in Rev are solid... connecting to a local SQLite db or a MySQL db on a server is not a problem at all... connecting to more than one db at a time is also not a problem... it do it all the time... Put that together with rev datagrids, for presenting and manipulating your data, along with behaviours and it is , IMHO, hard to beat.
learning how to use them is fairly easy, the manual as you have mentioned is well written and for the most part the 'rev dictionary' is more than competent at explaning the rev syntax, Trevor Devores .pdf on the datagrids for presenting your data is thorough and very competent as it seems to cover most aspects of datagrid use.
If you want database access then you will have to go for revStudio or revEnterprise as revMedia doesn't allow for database access
'3rd party add on products '?... I assume you mean for browsing and manipulating your data in the db's... free ones ? 'NaviCat Lite has served me well for manipulating MySQL databases and the SQLite manager, for of course SQLite db's, that is an add-on to firefox is also very competent.
Reading your own 'scripts' in rev is, again IMHO, far easier than doing the same in x-code (Oops! is that a touch of bias there?).., and if you do get a problem this forum is an excellent place to get help, advice and even the odd snippet of script posted to you to help you on your way... no matter what level of understanding you have of the rev language.
You say that you want to build your app for Mac... though you never know when the day will come that you may want, it, or indeed another app you make to run on more that one operating system...
Well, there you go... just my (mostly, I hope) unbiased opinion...
be well
Dixie
'You pay your money and you make your choice'... (Well, perhaps not in your case

The database libraries in Rev are solid... connecting to a local SQLite db or a MySQL db on a server is not a problem at all... connecting to more than one db at a time is also not a problem... it do it all the time... Put that together with rev datagrids, for presenting and manipulating your data, along with behaviours and it is , IMHO, hard to beat.
learning how to use them is fairly easy, the manual as you have mentioned is well written and for the most part the 'rev dictionary' is more than competent at explaning the rev syntax, Trevor Devores .pdf on the datagrids for presenting your data is thorough and very competent as it seems to cover most aspects of datagrid use.
If you want database access then you will have to go for revStudio or revEnterprise as revMedia doesn't allow for database access
'3rd party add on products '?... I assume you mean for browsing and manipulating your data in the db's... free ones ? 'NaviCat Lite has served me well for manipulating MySQL databases and the SQLite manager, for of course SQLite db's, that is an add-on to firefox is also very competent.
Reading your own 'scripts' in rev is, again IMHO, far easier than doing the same in x-code (Oops! is that a touch of bias there?).., and if you do get a problem this forum is an excellent place to get help, advice and even the odd snippet of script posted to you to help you on your way... no matter what level of understanding you have of the rev language.
You say that you want to build your app for Mac... though you never know when the day will come that you may want, it, or indeed another app you make to run on more that one operating system...
Well, there you go... just my (mostly, I hope) unbiased opinion...
be well
Dixie
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Re: Mac OS X dev: Rev or X Code / Python ?
My opinion is far from unbiased, so take the following with a large chunk of salt:
Far more costly than the purchase price of a development tool is the time spent becoming adept at it. Even tools which have no purchase price will carry a cost in terms of time spent learning them.
Rev is a very unusual way of working, and in some ways may require some "unlearning" if you have experience in other languages. But the upside is that it generally delivers an equally unusual return-on-investment in terms of learning and usage time saved. Zero compile times, readable code, integrated GUI object model - in terms of the day-to-day of making software, these things add up to some pretty hefty savings, esp. if your goal is cross-platform deployment, something XCode can't address at all.
But because Rev is such an uncommon beast, it may be best to check it out for yourself and see if it gels with how you think about making software. While RevMedia doesn't do databases, it's entirely free and can let you get introduced to the language and object model to see if it'll work well for you.
You will have questions, no doubt. Please feel free to post them here as you go, and the good folks here will do their best to see that you get well oriented so you can make an informed decision.
Far more costly than the purchase price of a development tool is the time spent becoming adept at it. Even tools which have no purchase price will carry a cost in terms of time spent learning them.
Rev is a very unusual way of working, and in some ways may require some "unlearning" if you have experience in other languages. But the upside is that it generally delivers an equally unusual return-on-investment in terms of learning and usage time saved. Zero compile times, readable code, integrated GUI object model - in terms of the day-to-day of making software, these things add up to some pretty hefty savings, esp. if your goal is cross-platform deployment, something XCode can't address at all.
But because Rev is such an uncommon beast, it may be best to check it out for yourself and see if it gels with how you think about making software. While RevMedia doesn't do databases, it's entirely free and can let you get introduced to the language and object model to see if it'll work well for you.
You will have questions, no doubt. Please feel free to post them here as you go, and the good folks here will do their best to see that you get well oriented so you can make an informed decision.
Richard Gaskin
LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems
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Re: Mac OS X dev: Rev or X Code / Python ?
WellThe major drawback for me, though, is cost.

You could develop your application in Xcode with Objective C, Python, Ruby, AppleScript .... But if you use Revolution you will archieve quick results, in other words you will save time. You do not need to check out Objective C, Cocoa and Xcode and you do not have to spend time packaging your application with py2app for example.
I would recommend that you request a trial version of Revolution Studio and make youself a picture about the transcript syntax and the development enviroment.
The question is not about how you could reach your goal to develop the application. Its more about time and convenience.
And in that way a scripting language, with an IDE, following the DMI approach, which could produce binaries for the three major OS platforms is not the worst choice.
Do I sound like a marketing guy?

Robert
Re: Mac OS X dev: Rev or X Code / Python ?
Definitely. But a very good one !RRobert wrote: Do I sound like a marketing guy?![]()

Nothing to add.
Someone was speaking about Navicat (as a third party tool to manage SQL db).
Let's not forget : HeidiSQL.
http://www.heidisql.com/
Open source. and very good.
And for our friend : give a try to RunRev.
And when you say "no way to recoup the cost" :
-are you sure ? You could have other projects after the first one.
-and what about the... "pleasure" idea ? To do things with RunRev can really be a source of pleasure. That could count in your decision.
But anyway, as you said : it's likely we are biased.

Re: Mac OS X dev: Rev or X Code / Python ?
bangkok...
redpill is using a Mac
Be well
Dixie
redpill is using a Mac
Be well
Dixie
Re: Mac OS X dev: Rev or X Code / Python ?
redpill,redpill wrote:This led me to consider alternatives for OS X development that would eliminate and/or minimize the cost to develop my personal application. Of course, X Code is free. As for the language, I was considering Python or Ruby as the main scripting language (FREE).
Sometimes it can be hard to recommend a course to someone when it's a financial decision. After all, you could be a millionaire truly trying to pick the best tool for the job or a 17 year-old for whom buying Rev Enterprise is a full month's pay.

But here's a few insights for you from someone who primarily programs in C/C++ and assembly (yes, assembly) all day long at work, but who has several side projects at home...
1. If your project is - or is close to - 100% web-based, then you may be better off going with Ruby or Python. Certainly you are going to have a lot more bits of example code out there to help you when you get stuck. Also, while Rev works very well, there's no arguing that Ruby and Python are much more mature web development languages.
2. "Cost" is typically only thought of in terms of money, but explicit cash spending is also usually the least of all "costs" associated with a given project. Consider time, iteration, debugging, distribution, bandwidth, etc. Perhaps a "free" tool as an upfront cost is the right choice. But maybe not. Sometimes going with what you know is best. Sometimes not. My recommendation would be to download a trial version of Rev and give yourself 2 days in each language to create a prototype. See where you end up after that period of time.
3. As I stated above, I'm a Objective-C/C/C++ programmer professionally. The greatest compliment I can give Rev is that I've taken Xcode off the dock and Visual Studio out of the quick launch bar. I find myself using Rev for just about everything. I wanted an RSS reader. I coded a prototype in Rev in a day (knowing nothing about RSS) and in under a week I had a complete application that I use every day now. I have several other examples as well.
4. Finally, and this is an important point: do not under-estimate the power of working with live data in Rev! This is a very different experience than using the REPL in Python, Ruby, and other interactive languages. Even if you don't choose to use Rev in the end, give it a try to get this experience if nothing else. It opens up your mind a little, just like the first time you learned about list comprehensions or closures.
HTH,
Jeff M.
Re: Mac OS X dev: Rev or X Code / Python ?
Wow! Great input, everyone. Just what I was looking for.
To RRobert: Thank for the links
To Dixie: Hello, again. I downloaded NaviCat and will try it. Looks impressive.
Thanks again!
Very cool. I was also considering that as a "sample" project to compare the languages.massung wrote:I wanted an RSS reader. I coded a prototype in Rev in a day (knowing nothing about RSS) and in under a week I had a complete application that I use every day now.
Another interesting perspective, but what is REPL?massung wrote:...do not under-estimate the power of working with live data in Rev! This is a very different experience than using the REPL in Python, Ruby, and other interactive languages.
To RRobert: Thank for the links

To Dixie: Hello, again. I downloaded NaviCat and will try it. Looks impressive.
Thanks again!
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Re: Mac OS X dev: Rev or X Code / Python ?
@RRobert: we don't have private messaging enabled here and I couldn't find your email address, so I'm writing here just to thank you for using the Report Post feature to flag spam posts here. Makes it very easy when I log in to find and delete them. Thanks.
Richard Gaskin
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Re: Mac OS X dev: Rev or X Code / Python ?

I get it.
And I got it: revStudio, that is!
Thanks for all your answers to my enquiry. One lesson learned: Never try to evaluate software by just reading the manual.

Besides, I figured I can learn XCode/Python (or ObjC) later if I want to implement some extensions (already have a few ideas).