Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

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bogs
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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by bogs » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:32 pm

SparkOut wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:16 pm
There was one LC version which launched after install. I can't remember which. The next release reverted. This has been the case for every combination of LC and Windows I can remember, bar that one version.
I *think* this bug was fixed at least in 2 reports, 1 of which concerned linux only (more recent report). In the general report I linked to in the post SparkOut was kind enough to find for me, here is the language going on at the time it was considered *fixed* (somewhere between 6.7 and 7.x) -
LiveCode QCC 2014-10-20 12:00:48 EDT
Hi,
your bug report has been addressed and the issue you raised is fixed. We fixed this bug in release: LiveCode 6.7 RC 3
Kind Regards, Hanson
--------------------------------------
[reply] [−] Comment 7 Peter TB Brett 2015-07-07 15:23:41 EDT
use-livecode mailing list traffic suggests that this *has* been fixed in 7.0.x, but not in 6.7.x.
See <http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-l ... 16063.html> and subsequent list traffic.
--------------------------------------
[reply] [−] Comment 8 LiveCode QCC 2015-07-08 16:15:14 EDT
Hi Peter,
thank you for reopening this report.
I tested the installation of LiveCode 6.7.6 GM 1 and 7.0.6 GM 1 on Xubuntu and can confirm what you have seen on the lists. 6.7.6 GM 1 does not launch but 7.0.6 GM 1 does.
Kind Regards,
Hanson
Aside from that, there is some discussion as to whether or not installing for everyone invoked the launch option. I never have tried it myself, but I would assume there is no launch option if installed for Everyone, anyone know for sure?
SparkOut wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:16 pm
Apart from adding my comment to the bug report, it wasn't a big enough deal to make any beef about. There are plenty of other bugs that don't seem to get attention that are more significant.
I'd agree there are far more significant bugs that also seem to go on and on, but this one seems like such a "give me", it is hard to understand it's endurance for so long.

Frankly, I think it is just a naming/path issue, but I am not positive. I am pretty sure the installer is not 'open source' either. The report is marked 'Fixed', so I don't know if my added comment will trigger it "re-opening" or not either.
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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by richmond62 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:44 pm

Well, the thing has to be either Fixed, and that doesn't mean "Fixed" it means Fixed (it seems that last time it was only "Fixed"),
or got rid of.

It would interesting to know why that feature is 'there' with Windows and Linux and the
Macintosh disk image contains no installer at all, merely drag 'n' drop to where-ever one wants LiveCode to be.
Last edited by richmond62 on Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by mwieder » Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:16 am

Well, I don't know about Windows but the problem is sorted out on linux in a weird way.
Under the hood the problem of not launching when you click the button is fixed.
But you can't run the installer on linux except using the command line, and that requires elevation of privilege. Modern linux distros thankfully no longer include gksu, so you have to use sudo to launch the installer.
And there's some interaction between sudo and the launch button, so that it never appears after the installation has finished. Doesn't matter if you install for yourself only or for all users.

So problem solved since there's no launch button to misbehave.

Now personally I don't really understand why that button existed in the first place, and now that it doesn't exist on OSX and doesn't appear on linux you might think that it's time to reconsider why the non-working button has any place on the Windows installer, no?

bogs
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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by bogs » Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:23 pm

mwieder wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:16 am
But you can't run the installer on linux except using the command line, and that requires elevation of privilege. Modern linux distros thankfully no longer include gksu, so you have to use sudo to launch the installer.
And there's some interaction between sudo and the launch button, so that it never appears after the installation has finished. Doesn't matter if you install for yourself only or for all users.
Whhaaaa ?!?!? (install video Lc 9.5.x stable) If I remember correctly, there was only a brief time where you could not just use the installer due to gksu being phased out (I forgot which versions it affected unfortunately).

In any case, the 'Launch now' button certainly *does* still appear, and is just as non-functional again as it was previously. I know it worked at least a few times when I had tried it previously, but apparently it is broken again on 'nix as well.

Since, as I mentioned earlier, i've never tried the "For Everyone" button, I suppose I'll have to test that out as well, but I wouldn't expect to see the option available installing for "Everyone". I believe it does when using either "you only" or "custom" though.
mwieder wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:16 am
Now personally I don't really understand why that button existed in the first place, and now that it doesn't exist on OSX and doesn't appear on linux you might think that it's time to reconsider why the non-working button has any place on the Windows installer, no?
As I mentioned above, removing the button would certainly *fix* the bug, as it were, but it still amazes me that it is so hard to fix properly.
I think you might need to test more rigorously, Mark, if you don't see the button, I see it on install of Lc on every distro I've ever used supported or no (and that is a LOT of distros!@!). Of course, I don't use MAC much since the 9 days :twisted:
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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by mwieder » Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:53 pm

bogs-

I see from the video you're running ubuntu 16.04. That still has gksu in the distro. That's why you can install without sudo.
And since you're not using sudo to elevate privilege there's no interaction to make the button disappear.

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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by bogs » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:37 pm

mwieder wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:53 pm
I see from the video you're running ubuntu 16.04.
Yes, that video was a question asked elsewhere in this forum with a particular distro / Lc version needed, I didn't realize gksu was still in it (I thought it had been removed in prior versions) :oops: . Is 18.04 (excuse the quality, I had a LOT going on at the time :P ) more to your liking? I have no idea when or even if gksu was removed. If it isn't removed in the current LTS, well, then I think that might not be the problem your describing.
mwieder wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:53 pm
That's why you can install without sudo.
I can install without sudo because I am not altering any system wide files. When you install for "You Only", it installs into your home directory, it doesn't require elevated permission to do so. If you custom install into your home directory, you wouldn't need any elevated permission for that, either, because you as the owner of your 'home' directory can modify any file or folder contained within.
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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by mwieder » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:03 pm

Ah, no. Sorry.

Is that an ubuntu 18 that you upgraded from a 16 base? If so you've still got gksu in the system. A simple 'which gksu' will tell you.

And even if you install for the current user only (as I do to keep the /opt directory clean) the installer will fail without sudo or gksu.
Uninstalling will similarly fail.

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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by bogs » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:25 pm

Not sure what the sorry is for?

That was clean install of ubuntu 18.04 LTS. I hadn't even updated it.

'which gksu' told me nothing :D
Apic_whichGkSu.png
Who what when where...
I used no sudo, no gksu, no tamagatchi radio, just what you saw in the video. Setup a vm and try it yourself.

Uninstalling suffered no issues from not using sudo either. Again, I'm not sure why you would need sudo to do anything in your home directory, those files are tied to your user/group level. I've tested installing Lc to a LOT of distros, mostly of debian heritage since that is what I prefer, I don't think I've ever used sudo to do so once I found it was unnecessary.
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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by mwieder » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:03 am

LOL. That was me tripping over my own feet, probably because of looking backward into the past while walking forward into the wall.

Back when that wasn't working I installed using sudo, and I ended up with the ~/.runrev/components directory owned by root.
Now that I chowned the enclosing directory I can install without sudo and the launch button appears and works.
Still some strange interaction where the button doesn't appear if you sudo install, so I'm keeping the bug report open just for giggles.

...and I still don't see the need for the continued existence of the launch button on any platform.
Are we not supposed to figure out how to launch the app right after installing, but only every time after that?

bogs
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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by bogs » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:44 pm

Yah, that would certainly cause that behavior :wink:

I suspect using sudo to do the install makes it not limited to your account, hence you would not see the launch button. You don't own the files at that point, root does, just as if you installed for everyone regardless of which option you choose.

As for the launch after install, I suspect that was done as a convenience thing. It isn't as if Lc alone offers it, a LOT of other software does. Autodesk, for instance, has a launch after install option, the main difference is theirs works. Borland had it. Although I can't remember every piece of software I used that had it, for a while it seemed like EVERYONE did.

Lc is supposed to be programming for people on many different levels, so I can see the advantage of launching right after an installation just on an ease of use base, and as I said earlier, it should *not* be rocket science to implement since the installer has to know where the files are going to begin with.

Even for savvy users (on windows at least) if you launch after installing, you can pin the program right to your task bar from the icon there.

Aside from launching on install, you know what I find the most curious? That at no time in the install does Lc offer to put an icon on the desktop. I don't know about the current mac way of doing...almost anything, but almost every program I ever installed offered to do that on Winders, and many offer it on 'nix.

For reasons you might take that approach, it keeps your program more or less in plain view, hopefully making it easier for people to launch, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by SparkOut » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:17 pm

bogs wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:44 pm
That at no time in the install does Lc offer to put an icon on the desktop.
Every combination of versions of Windows and LiveCode I can remember puts a shortcut icon on the dedktop automatically (no asking).

bogs
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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by bogs » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:45 pm

Huh, must have missed that one. Probably because it is automatic :D

It sure doesn't happen that way on 'nix though.
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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by jacque » Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:51 pm

And Macs don't use installers, except for updating system files. The app bundle is just copied to the Applications folder, and there's never a desktop icon. I think Mac users would rebel if an installer took that liberty with their desktop or dock.
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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by richmond62 » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:32 pm

I use both Macintosh and various Linux distros with either XFCE or KDE.

In all cases I do not like apps plonking 'launchers' or symbolic links anywhere.
I far prefer to decide what I want up-front on my desktop.

But I came to Linux via Macintosh.

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Re: Windows 8.1 installer doesn't launch..

Post by mwieder » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:39 pm

I'm perfectly capable of messing up my own desktop, thank you. :P

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