Revolution vs REALbasic

tfindlay · Post by **tfindlay** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:44 am

I am wondering if anyone has had a few years experience with REALbasic (as I have) and then switched to Revolution. If so, which do you prefer and why?

FourthWorld · Post by **FourthWorld** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:56 pm

In my experience folks who become heavily invested in one development system rarely switch to another. The purchase price is the license is trivial compared to the learning curve and the recreation of commonly-used libraries, making the cost of switching sometimes more expensive than the productivity gains a given tool may offer.

Are you the tfindlay of To The Point Software? If so, you have quite an impressive collection of apps under your belt. Perhaps we may be useful if you could tell us a bit about your interest in Rev, what you would hope to do with it that would be difficult to do in RB, so we can offer more specific guidance.

ajoe · Post by **ajoe** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:51 pm

Terry,

I have been reading about, studying, and playing with computer languages for over 20 years, and owned and used both RB and Rev.

In the end, any such choice whether it is Rev vs. RB, or C vs. Java, is a matter of how it feels to you and how fits the task at hand. For example, I've explored Java, C++, Obj-C, Ruby, Python, etc., but I'm still more productive in Lisp than any of the others. Is it a better language? Nope. Just the one that fits me best.

To me, Rev and RB have more similarities than differences, but Rev is moving quickly to include web-app technologies that may set it apart. Again based on your needs.

Another question. If you are looking to move away from RB, why are you limiting your choices to just Rev. If you want stability with full cross-platform support, Qt (using C++) is a very impressive package. It was acquired by Nokia and is not open source (LGPL). And there are other choices based on the direction you're headed.

Janschenkel · Post by **Janschenkel** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:22 pm

I have to agree with the previous poster: pick the right language and tools for the job at hand.

At work, we use a mixture of Progress ABL, C++, Java and even Ruby for the healthcare products that we ship to our customers. After hours, I use Revolution and Java. I also know my way around FileMaker, FoxPro and VB.NET, and keep hoping to find more time for Objective-C/Cocoa.

Each language is indeed quite an investment to master, and each platform comes with its own advantages and challenges. There are tasks for which I wouldn't even bother with Revolution (multithreading needs always bring me back to Java), and others which I know I can put together so much faster using Revolution.

So I'm with Richard "FourthWorld" Gaskin: which applications are you looking to build?

Jan Schenkel.

tfindlay · Post by **tfindlay** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:27 am

Yes, I am the ToThePoint Software person. I am just curious how RB and Rev compare. I don't really have a specific project in mind. I am interested in the web development capabilities but if I understand it correctly I can get away with just the Rev Media package for that.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

MotherHoose · Post by **MotherHoose** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:38 am

Greetings Terry!

You buy what works for you...

IMHO:

RB is the easiest to learn; I could build a program the 1st time I tried!
" object.property "
make a module for global properties...
validate user text input
and, etc.

Rev handles graphics nicely; but still can't complete a program!
(I bought it as a gift, in June, for my grandson.)

The best comparison, though: if you buy RB and don't like it, you can get a (full) refund within 90 days...(according to their RBS website.)

and, you can't get refund from RuntimeRevolution, even if the program doesn't work on the computer you bought it for! (they didn't even offer to supply a copy/serial# for the platform I needed!)

Sorry I did not buy RB for myself!

Love, MotherHoose

ajoe · Post by **ajoe** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:38 pm

The RunRev Terms & Conditions clearly states:

30 Day Money Back Guarantee
If for any reason you are unhappy with your purchase, you have the right to cancel any purchase made from Runtime Revolution within 30 days of the order being placed, or within 30 days of receipt of the CD-ROM, manual or other merchandise (whichever is the longer). If you would like to request a refund, please email support@runrev.com and request that your account is closed and a refund issued. We may need to contact you to obtain further information to efficiently process your request or determine if there is a problem to be addressed.

MotherHoose · Post by **MotherHoose** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:42 pm

Thanx for the heads up...ajoe!

I bought Studio for my grandson (June 4th)...the website clearly stated that it would "install on any computer" I owned...(I own his windows computer)...

when I complained to support (June 10th)...I rec'd a reply; and the website was changed...but no one offered to exchange the serial number for one that would work...no one offered a refund of monies.

in effect no one corrected my problem...only the problem with the misleading info on the website was corrected...which will help future purchasers...but wont help me!

since, the thirty days are up...and since my grandson did not like the trial copy of the program, I am struggling to try to do something with Studio...

I am not complaining about Rev...just my experiences with support! and inability to get results from my efforts to work with it.

Love...MotherHoose

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:50 pm

Two things kept me from using RealBASIC, first the pricing structure... Then again, I've been known to complain about Rev's pricing structure too

Second was the cumbersome RealBASIC IDE. It's not so much RealBASIC's fault either, I've just spent so many years of my life in a editor/notepad style IDE system with all the languages I've used that the RB IDE was just too much change for me to handle. Though it did have it's share of bugs and crashes at the time of my trying it too.

Syntax wise it's what you'd expect of a basic style language. It offered more than enough to allow an author to build pretty much anything he needed too.

I chose Rev instead. Even though it's syntax was something new to me, I found myself at home, even with it's unique IDE setup. I was capable of getting things done in Rev more than what was possible for me in RealBASIC.

But like many, I do use several languages and usually pick the one I feel is best suited for the task at hand. Many times I need just a simple tool and I'll use Visual DialogScript(Windows only) for something like that. For larger projects (and cross platform) I'll either use PureBasic or Rev here... Again, depending on specific needs.

In the end it is totally up to you really. Play with the demo, check the docs out and see what Rev has. Think about what you can or can't do with Rev. Think about whether or not you even need another programming setup.

@ MotherHoose: Really sorry to hear about your situation with Rev. It's a bit odd though. Anytime I've had any issues with Rev, they've always been quick to respond and usually very helpful in resolving whatever my issue is.

FourthWorld · Post by **FourthWorld** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:19 pm

MotherHoose wrote:I am not complaining about Rev...just my experiences with support! and inability to get results from my efforts to work with it.

So far your only two posts have been in this thread. Have you considered posting questions about using RunRev? I'm sure the good folks here would be eager to help you get started.

Janey · Post by **Janey** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:24 pm

MotherHoose wrote:
I am not complaining about Rev...just my experiences with support! and inability to get results from my efforts to work with it.

So far your only two posts have been in this thread. Have you considered posting questions about using RunRev? I'm sure the good folks here would be eager to help you get started.

Are you the tfindlay of To The Point Software? If so, you have quite an impressive collection of apps under your belt. Perhaps we may be useful if you could tell us a bit about your interest in Rev, what you would hope to do with it that would be difficult to do in RB, so we can offer more specific guidance.

Golly Richard do you do a background check of everyone posting in this forum?

Janey

FourthWorld · Post by **FourthWorld** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:42 pm

Janey wrote:Golly Richard do you do a background check of everyone posting in this forum?

No, that's what my friends at the NSA are for.

People are interesting to me. I've been active in the scripting community for more than 20 years so a lot of names are familiar. I've even recognized a couple of my own customers here, and a good many more from other lists and conferences over the years.

When I see a name I don't know, if they post an interesting question I like to learn more about them to see how I might be helpful.

Mr. Findlay mentioned that he's been using RB for some years. It's a good tool and if someone's been using it that long chances are they've done some interesting things with it. It turns out that he's done some marvelous things with it, a line of eight products that seem quite useful and are well priced. So while I haven't worked with RB in many years, as a fellow small-shop publisher he and I have a lot in common, and I may be able to help answer some of this questions.

And as someone who's taught xTalk scripting I found MotherHoose's post especially interesting because it represents a fairly common trend in the early stages of this learning curve. xTalks like are so different from most other traditional languages that getting oriented can be a tough task. He seems interested in learning how to use it, and with a little info about the types of things he'd like to do I'm pretty confident he can get some good value out of his purchase.

Like most forums, this one provides a profile that folks can fill out to share info if they like. For example, Mark includes his URL in his profile so we can conveniently access his very useful collection of tools and scripts at this site. Same with Jan, Klaus, and many others. So I often use the profile feature to see what folks may have provided there.

It's certainly not a requirement to fill in the profile, but if you do professional work it's a great way to let others know what kind of work you do. And sometimes it's just fun to discover someone who shares a hobby (though I have yet to meet anyone here with an interest in Mojave archaeology <g>).

DrScott · Post by **DrScott** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:10 am

I've been programming in REALbasic for several years and have written 70 educational applications in RB. I also program in Revolution.

NO single programming tool is perfect for all situations. ALL programming tools have advantages, disadvantages, and tasks for which they are appropriate or inappropriate.

As for REALbasic and Revolution specifically, I can't say that I prefer one over another. Both are simple to use. Both are cross-platform, but don't make it easy to tailor the GUI for each platform's UI standards in a single project. Both can let you produce applications quickly, but have some shortcomings because libraries may not be present for everything you need to do. This doesn't stop me from using both, being productive with both, and enjoying both.

Dr. Scott Steinman
Professor, Southern College of Optometry

Garrett · Post by **Garrett** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:19 am

FourthWorld wrote:xTalks like are so different from most other traditional languages that getting oriented can be a tough task.

I can attest to that... But once you poke around in it for a short time, it starts click and click fast. That's the beauty of it.

jsims · Post by **jsims** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:09 pm

I was a REALbasic user since version 1.0. I am a professional programmer by trade but REALbasic was always just a hobby language for me. After my subscription last ran out, I decided that, in the 10 years I'd used it, it really hadn't progressed much at all for the types of apps I was building. As an example, around the year 2000, I emailed the company and asked for a flexible datagrid with inline editors ala DevExpress XtraGrid for .NET. I wasn't expecting anything quite that powerful but something along those lines. Geoff sent me a "thanks for your input" email and, after almost 10 years, it never happened.

I have seen some very nice UIs done in RB, but when discussing these with the creators, you find that it was many, many hours of custom control building or using declares into various libraries.

From what I've seen so far, nice UIs can be created much more easily with Rev. In addition, the large pallet of built-in commands and libraries make putting small, specific-task applications together very quickly. I've been able to build these small apps much faster with less code than I could with RB.

The biggest hurdle has been getting my mind to change from working with objects (which is really hard as I am a .NET programmer by trade) and getting it to think in messages and message paths.

The greatest thing about my switch was that within 2 months of switching to Rev, they announced the new DataGrid! I can't tell you how happy that made me. 10 years of nothing from RB and, all of a sudden, my new language has a very flexible and usable Datagrid control.

Then, they announce 2 more cool items...using the Rev language in webpages (On-Rev) and also the RevWeb plug-in that will actually allow you to run stacks in a web browser. So, RB has "swordfish" which appears to have died with Joe Strout starting Yuma and Rev has these great enhancements almost production ready.

Lastly, the thing that I am probably most happy with in my change has been the transparency of the company itself. As you know, REAL is a very secretive group of people. On the other hand, I have found the RunRev people to be quite open about their plans and timelines. They don't seem to fear delays like the REAL folks do. And they even give us cool webinar previews of technology so we can see what's coming.

I have not tried a large project in Rev. I tried a couple of large projects in RB but always hit a point where something was lacking enough in the language that I just didn't have the time to write so much code to overcome its shortcomings. I am currently considering a pretty large project using Rev. If I do it, I'll try to share my experiences then.

Sorry if I bored everybody 2 sentences into this.

Take care.