window to window functionality lacking?

[Ed_Ray]

For Fourthworld;
[A]
Per your recommendation I uninstalled ver 8.1 and installed ver 8.1.2 build 14013 in order to test out the fullclipboard features to ensure background colored text can be used.

I used an uninstaller like “RevoUninPro” that typically does a superior job of removing apps down to the registry level. I even removed the preference folders and the LC documentation cache folders etc as recommended by other forum users.

Unfortunately I still can never seem to get rid of the prior version remains. Because of this, I can’t get the dictionary to work for the tenth re-install time now. It always says unresponsive and never loads.

Do you have a utility to COMPLETELY remove LC so I can get a fresh app start so my dictionary can come up like it did when I first installed LC? This is so incredibly annoying having to depend on online dictionaries that are not being updated. I really would rather have the real app dictionary but apparently this won’t happen until I can completely remove all remains of my prior installs.

I would appreciate any help you can think of in this regard. I would have thought by now the developers would have come up with a utility to COMPLETELY uninstall the app.


Both your demo and my own example attempt at using fullclipboard is doing something that does not seem to work as I expected. Perhaps you can clear this up.

Using your demo, when I click on the set fullclipboarddata[“html”] button the script does:
set the fullClipboardData["html"] to the text of fld "html" where the html field has the inline CSS changes. So I expect the fullclipboard to get the copy of the the inline css text mods.

If I do a “put fullClipboardData["html"]” right after the fullclipboard was set in the prior step above I don’t see anything on the screen. I expected to see the modified HTML source text on the screen. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for your response.

[AndyP]

Hi ED_RAY,

There is no need to uninstall LC when a new version is installed. Each version of LC resides in its own directory space and therefore you can have multiple versions installed.

On my computer (Win10) the base for all LC installs is user/AppData/Roaming/RunRev/Componants/

I have over 30 versions stable and DP and they all sit well together...just do not have two versions running at the same time.

[FourthWorld]

Hello Ed -

A: I didn't suggest uninstalling older versions, merely installing newer ones. As Andy noted, it's not necessary to remove versions when adding new ones. In fact, it can often be helpful for diagnostics like what we're doing here to be able to compare behavior across versions. I have at least three different versions installed on most of my machines.

B: As I've noted in the message your replying to and at least once earlier, I had identified a bug related to setting the fullClipboardData["html"] which in my testing appears to be limited to the LiveCode engine for Windows. As you can see if you follow the link to the bug report, it has been addressed with a status of "AWAITING BUILD", so while it's not in our hands yet it's expected for the next release.

Most importantly, my testing on Windows suggests that the original solution you're looking for works out-of-the-box in LC v9, and possibly in the latest Stable version of v8.x as well (I only tested v9).

To verify that this works on your system, just click the "Copy Field Text" button in the example stack I made for you, or use any other stack you may have which uses the copy command to copy field text which includes backgroundColor among its styling attributes. In my testing here, pasting preserves all styles, including backgroundColor. If your results are different it will be useful to know which version of Windows you're running.

Also, if you don't see backgroundColor carried over with v8.1.2, you may want to try v9 to see if this has been correct in subsequent work. v9 is what I had used to in my testing, with excellent results.

[Ed_Ray]

For Andy and fourthworld;
]A]
I only attempted to uninstall ver 8.1 because the dictionary no longer loads. I figured a complete uninstall then reinstall would bring up the dictionary as normal.

Any other further installs still retain the issue with the dictionary not loading (says unresponsive for a while then never loads, the rest of the IDE functionality works fine).

So I think that as long as I don’t completely remove LC then do a fresh install I am never going to get the dictionary back. So can you guys recommend a way to completely uninstall LC from my pc?
Don’t the developers have a utility for completely removing LC in order to remedy issues like I am having with the dictionary?

As an alternative, do you guys know a way to be able to get the dictionary to load up again without having to do a complete refresh of the app?

For Fourthworld;
When you mentioned that when I use the LC version 9 (assume you want me to use dp4) where everything is supposed to be working I should just select the text with background color from a field then use the copy command then just paste to a word processing doc and everything should be pasted correctly with the background colors retained?

In the demo the html field only has the modified HTML source text NOT the actual selection with the colored backgrounds so:

So I am not clear what is your intent in executing “set the fullClipboardData["html"] to the text of fld "html"? Was this for an earlier version of LC in which the paste was not working with background colors and you were expecting to use the fullclipboard [“html] content to fix the pasting issue?

1. What were you expecting to see on the full clipboard when you pressed the “set the fullClipboardData["html"]” button? and
1.1 What was your intent on executing “set the fullClipboardData["html"] to the text of fld "html"?
since the dictionary states:
“The above statement “set clipboard to x” statement is EQUIVALENT to selecting the text of fld "html" and choosing Edit menu Copy, or to using the copy command. The data you place on the clipboard is accessible to your application using the paste command”,

I though the whole point of setting the fullclipboard to the modified html source text into it so that we could then paste to things outside of LC?

Since the html field only has the modified source html text and NOT the actual selection with colored backgrounds, I have never understood exactly what would be in the fullclipboard after it is set with the modified html source text.

Can you please clarify?
Thanks

[Ed_Ray]

For Fourthworld;

It seems from your demo that three out of four “set the fullClipboardData["html"] to the etc” statements don’t get set and therefore don’t yield related “put clipboarddata["html"]” statements outputs. According to livecode wiki ANY one of the four clipboards and fullclipboards can be set then the rest would get set automatically.

Currently in your demo only fullClipboardData["htmltext"] can be set yielding a corresponding “put clipboarddata["html"]”statement that generates a tangible output. I did not see this in your demo notes and was wondering if you were aware of this and if this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

I also noticed that you did cover the four (two clipboards and two fullclipboards) clipboards with the four “set clipboard/fullclipboard” buttons but in the field keys area, htmltext never shows up under the clipboarddata button label. Any reason for this omission in the field keys area?

I installed ver 9 dp4 per your recommendation and ran your demo and activated the “copy fields contents button. Unfortunately although I was able to correctly paste the colored output in any LC window, any attempt to paste to wordpad or word for window etc did not retain the colored outputs.
I also ran my own apps under ver 9 but the same issues remain, no colored backgrounds were retained in any word processing document.

Perhaps you can tell me the exact steps you used with your demo to show how you were able to paste the colored backgrounds into word processing docs.

Thanks.

[FourthWorld]

For Fourthworld;

It seems from your demo that three out of four “set the fullClipboardData["html"] to the etc” statements don’t get set and therefore don’t yield related “put clipboarddata["html"]” statements outputs. According to livecode wiki ANY one of the four clipboards and fullclipboards can be set then the rest would get set automatically.

Without a URL to the source you're referring to it's not possible to offer an informed reply about what it says.

In the v9 Dictionary included in the IDE I see no such provision for fullClipboardData. Indeed, one of the purposes of adding fullClipboardData was to allow keys to be handled independently.

As I wrote earlier, the IDE's Dictionary will be the most relevant reference for any given version. If you still have an issue with the Dictionary not loading on your system, please create a new thread for that issue so we can resolve it. When noting any issue with LiveCode, it's very helpful to include not only the LiveCode version number but also the OS version as well.

Currently in your demo only fullClipboardData["htmltext"] can be set yielding a corresponding “put clipboarddata["html"]”statement that generates a tangible output. I did not see this in your demo notes and was wondering if you were aware of this and if this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

My demo doesn't address mixing different clipboard arrays types at all. I suppose there may be many interesting explorations one could try among all possible combinations of arrays and their keys, but in practice I don't mix them myself and such a vast exploration was well beyond the scope of that simple demo.

I did note, however, that the clipboardData array is older, and that the fullClipboardData is recommended for new work going forward. That advice came from the lead engineer, so it seems worth heeding.

I also noticed that you did cover the four (two clipboards and two fullclipboards) clipboards with the four “set clipboard/fullclipboard” buttons but in the field keys area, htmltext never shows up under the clipboarddata button label. Any reason for this omission in the field keys area?

See above, and the note I included in the demo. In brief, with the older clipboardData array "html" is a shorthand synonym for "htmlText".

I installed ver 9 dp4 per your recommendation and ran your demo and activated the “copy fields contents button. Unfortunately although I was able to correctly paste the colored output in any LC window, any attempt to paste to wordpad or word for window etc did not retain the colored outputs.
I also ran my own apps under ver 9 but the same issues remain, no colored backgrounds were retained in any word processing document.

Forgive me if I missed where you'd answered this earlier: which version of Windows are you using?

LC v9 supports Windows 7 and later. If the version you're using is within that range you may want to file a bug report:
http://quality.livecode.com/

I would file the report myself, but I'm unable to reproduce the issue here.

Perhaps you can tell me the exact steps you used with your demo to show how you were able to paste the colored backgrounds into word processing docs.

See my previous post above, where I wrote:
"To verify that this works on your system, just click the "Copy Field Text" button in the example stack I made for you, or use any other stack you may have which uses the copy command to copy field text which includes backgroundColor among its styling attributes."

[Ed_Ray]

For fourthworld;

The OS I am using is windows 7 SP2.

[A]
You stated:
"To verify that this works on your system, just click the "Copy Field Text" button in the example stack I made for you, or use any other stack you may have which uses the copy command to copy field text which includes background Color among its styling attributes."

That is exactly what I did as i stated in my last post and I quote myself:

"I installed ver 9 dp4 per your recommendation and ran your demo and activated the “copy fields contents button. Unfortunately although I was able to correctly paste the colored output in any LC window, any attempt to paste to wordpad or word for window etc did not retain the colored outputs.
I also ran my own apps under ver 9 but the same issues remain, no colored backgrounds were retained in any word processing document"

So I am not seeing any improvement to the issue of pasting colored backgrounds outside of LC and running the demo gives exactly the same results in ALL cases (put clipboardata/fullclipboarddata" yields an output ONLY after fullclipboparddata[htmltext"] has been set) between ver 8.1 and ver 9 dp4 so I am not seeing any ver 9 differences.

I also have various friends that have livecode installed (ver 9) that were nice enough to try the same and they report exactly what I am reporting... background colors can't be pasted outside LC in ver 9. I think they are running win 7 and win 8 and 8.1 OS with the same results as me in all regards (same demo and colored background results).

So although I agree that It would be great to have a resolution to this that does not require launching the modified web page, in order to re-select and copy the data so the paste works outside of LC, but I am seem to be in the same place I was 3 weeks as this being the only solution that works for me and can be replicated by everyone else that tries it and in any LC version.


Regarding your response "adding fullClipboardData was to allow keys to be handled independently".
Yes I think you had alluded to that earlier but I am just reporting what the demo outputs which is when fullClipboardData["htmltext"] gets set and ONLY when it gets set, ALL the other clipboards (clipboarddata["html"], clipboarddata["htmltext"], and fullClipboardData["html"] also get set with exactly the SAME data so there seems to be some level of interdependence and i don't know if this is good or bad, I'm just reporting the demo results.

[C]
Regarding your response "My demo doesn't address mixing different clipboard arrays types at all. I suppose there may be many interesting etc."
I am just reporting my observations on the demo results where all four clipboards have their own script and corresponding output but only setting fullClipboardData["htmltext"] sets all the other clipboards with the same data and ONLY when this happens does one observe “put clipboarddata["html"/"htmltext"]” and "put fullClipboardData["html"]" statements that finally generates a tangible output. Again, I don't know if this is good or bad, I'm just reporting the demo results.

[D]
Regarding your response "In brief, with the older clipboardData array "html" is a shorthand synonym for "htmlText".
I understand but since clipboarddata has two keys "[html"] and ["htmltext"], shouldn't both "htmltext" and "html" appear in the field "keys" when the clipboarddata label is present on the cbType button?

[E]
Regarding your response "If you still have an issue with the Dictionary not loading on your system, please create a new thread for that issue so we can resolve it".
Yes as stated in a couple of past posts, I still cannot load the IDE dictionary in ANY version of LC including ver 9.

Also as stated before, I need the LC developers to provide a utility so that I can COMPLETELY temporarily remove all LC footprints from my system so that I can come up fresh. At that time I am sure the dictionary problem will be resolved.
This is pretty common practice for an app to provide such a utility. if anything, the developers would need something like this for themselves whenever they are testing different LC versions etc.

I had provided a post before for this same lingering issue with a few recommendations which I tried without any luck. So per your recommendation I will post a new thread again.

Thanks for all of your help.

[AxWald]

Hi,

"I installed ver 9 dp4 per your recommendation and ran your demo and activated the “copy fields contents button. Unfortunately although I was able to correctly paste the colored output in any LC window, any attempt to paste to wordpad or word for window etc did not retain the colored outputs.

pasting from Richards demo stack

paste.png (21.4 KiB) Viewed 10011 times

Yes as stated in a couple of past posts, I still cannot load the IDE dictionary in ANY version of LC including ver 9.

Hmmm. Is there a possibility that your system is diseased by some stuff that prevents it from proper functioning? Are there persons less computer literate, having access to your machine? Those often install "pro tuning software" and various similar snake oil that could cause such symptoms.

Have fun!

[FourthWorld]

This sprawling thread has expanded to encompass three different issues. Let me please summarize current status and next steps for each so we can bring these to resolution:

The copy command doesn't include backgroundColor (original issue)
I can't reproduce this in current versions of LC, and apparently neither can Ax (thank you for helping to test that, Ax).

The recipe is straightforward, consisting of only two steps: use the copy command to copy any text that has a run with backgroundColor set, then paste into any program that handles styled text.

Since neither Ax nor I can reproduce this, we're unable to submit a bug report. Please submit one, and post the URL in this forum thread so those interested can follow the progress:
http://quality.livecode.com/


Uninstall isn't complete
I'm unable to reproduce this. On my machines here, both physical and virtual, using Windows' "Add/Remove Programs" in the Control Panel reliably removes LC, all the way down to the registry entries. If this isn't working for you please open a new thread focused on this topic, or file a bug report for it at the url above.


Dictionary doesn't load
I'm also unable to reproduce this one. Thank you for opening a new thread on this - those interested can follow the issue in its new thread here:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28817

[SparkOut]

Just to add flies to the ointment.
Testing here with your stack Richard, Windows 10, LiveCode 9.0.0-dp-4 I can copy and paste happily within the test stack.
Trying to paste into any other application (Word, Notepad, Scite, this forum message edit box, etc) there is no action when using keyboard Ctrl+C paste, and right-click context menu and file edit menus show no paste options, as in the clipboard has no content.
I can paste from other apps into the stack.

[FourthWorld]

If you copy text that includes styles runs containing backgroundColor using the "copy' command, and paste into other apps that can normally handle background colors in text runs but the background color is not preserved, you may want to file a bug report on that. I'm not able to reproduce that, so I can't file the report myself.

If you do file the report, please post the URL here so others won't submit a duplicate, and so interested folks can follow the progress.

[Ed_Ray]

for AxWald ;
No, nobody uses my office PC. Its locked at all times. Its possible you missed my comment in the last post that stated that four of my engineering associates using ver 9 of the software and the demo have all reported the same thing.

They cannot paste the colored backgrounds. So its nothing on my machine causing this issue. If this would have been the case, my other associates would have reported success which they did not.


Thanks

[Ed_Ray]

For fourthworld;

Thanks for keeping everything under control (smile).

Per your recommendation I opened up a separate post for the "uninstall leaving footprints" issue which is related to the dictionary not working post which I also opened as a separate post per your prior recommendation.

Regarding this strange problem where some can paste colored backgrounds in ver 9 while others using the same ver and the same demo can't, I will put in a bug report tomorrow when my brain has cleared up a bit.

For me the real issue here is that I have been trying for two months to get out an all inclusive Regex app I feel will benefit the LC community but this lack of colored backgrounds functionality in previous versions and the strangeness of its functionality in ver 9 keeps me from getting the app out in a timely manner to the folks that can benefit from its use.

I find it difficult to get out an app that will only work "sometimes" by "some" people that only have ver 9 installed (a dp version not yet stable), particularly when going through this and other LC forums it becomes apparent that many LC users/developers are STILL using ver 7 and early ver 8 and don't seem motivated to move on to an unstable version 9 at this point in time.

So although I agree with some of the moderators and VIP folks that a solution that is built-in would typically be preferable to a solution requiring a modified web page where the color backgrounds could be selected from, that eliminates the LC deprecated non standard font tags replacing them with true html inline CSS text, I could say in behalf of that solution, that it works for ALL vers of LC even ver 7 and earlier and it works for EVERYBODY that uses it and it works ALL of the time.

Lastly, I just have one last question for fourthworld that perhaps can help me wrap my head around this on-going issue.

Since in your demo you are using the "Copy Field Contents" to make the copy happen in a "built-in" manner, and not directly/separately use any of the set clipboard/full clipboard buttons for the copy, what was the point and the significance of using the separate fullclipboard buttons?

Meaning, ONLY the activation of button "Set fullClipboardData["htmlText"]" actually sets the clipboard but it only sets it with the inline CSS text data NOT the background colors.

The other three set clipboard/fullclipboard buttons do NOT move anything into the clipboard as established by any "put" counterpart statement which shows empty at the point of activation for any of these three buttons.

Thanks. Always appreciate your help.

[AxWald]

Hmmm.

You & 4 of your associates cannot paste backColors into WordPad. So you deduce it's a bug in LC.
Now I post a pict that shows it actually works on other machines. So you deduce it's still a bug in LC because, well, it doesn't work on your & your associates computers, all 5 of 'em!

Your logic seems flawed.

From the facts above I'd deduce that there must be a difference between my machines (2x Win 10-64 pro), and yours. For sure there must be such, because they behave differently. In my post above I hinted about possible reasons - a presence of a software that tampers with your systems and is causing the problems you describe.

Still this doesn't make you think. Instead you ramble further:

[...] this lack of colored backgrounds functionality in previous versions and the strangeness of its functionality in ver 9 [...]

Nonsense about previous versions:

This is from one of your threads from last year.

All these months you're writing one long post after the other, instead of analyzing the problem, and solving it - you must have plenty of spare time!
A hint: Look for software that "expands" your clipboard capabilities. MS Office clipboard, maybe?

And a Tl;dr:

Code: Select all

on ProblemSolver
   if ("I cannot paste backColors") then
      if ("Nobody other can paste backColors, too.") then
         return "It might be a bug."
      else if ("Someone other can paste backColors.") then
         answer question "Why is it just me that cannot paste backColors?" 
         if ("I tried this with a freshly setup machine & still cannot.") then
            return "It might be a very strange bug."
         else
            send "ProblemSolver" to me in 3 days
            return "Get rid of all the snake oil on your machine, finally!"
         end if
      end if
   end if
end ProblemSolver

Have fun!

[shaosean]

You should have used Comics Sans for the full horror inducing nightmare