MacOS Sonoma Beta

[Hutchboy]

I downloaded the latest MacOS Sonoma beta release (Version 14.0 Beta (23A5257q)). In both LiveCode 9.6.9 and 10.0.0 DP 5 the app crashes after loading libraries. I am curious if anyone has gotten it running. Thanks, Mike

[richmond62]

That's going to put the cat among the pigeons.

I assume LiveCode Central has a developer account and is 'on the money', should it be necessary, right now.

HOWEVER: one question:

1. Are you running MacOS 14 on Intel or ARM hardware?

1.1. I am not sure if MacOS 14 on ARM hardware still supports software written for Intel.

1.2. I am not sure if recent versions of LiveCode are available in ARM-native forms.

[Hutchboy]

I am running Sonoma on a 2018 Mac mini (Intel). I have an M1 Mac mini but am hesitant to upgrade it to Sonoma until I hear LiveCode runs on it. I haven’t yet found another app that crashes on the Sonoma beta. I thought the latest LiveCode releases were universal binaries. Will wait to hear from LiveCode tech. Thanks for the quick response.

[richmond62]

Thanks for the quick response.

I am NOT good for you, I'm afraid, as I have, at present, no licence for LiveCode and am still working with Open Source versions (9.6.3 and backwards),
and my own, selfish, worries are whether those will work with MacOS 14 as I am tempted (!) when come the day when Beta testers like myself have the chance to upgrade my 2018 Intel Mac Mini to do just that.

Having written that, it is interesting that with MacOS 13 I can run from LC 8.0.0 to LC 9.6.3., so, unless the Apple people have been doing some really funny stuff in MacOS 14 . . .

More questions:

1. Is your LC install an install that was 'there' on your machine under MacOS 13, and you upgraded the machine to MacOS 14?

2. Did you do a 'virgin' install of MacOS 14 and a frsh install of LiveCode?

I have 'dragged' my 2018 Mac Mini all the way through from MacOS 10.14 to MacOS 13 without a fresh install.

[Hutchboy]

The MacOS 14 beta was an upgrade from Ventura. I might try a fresh install of LiveCode. Luckily I can go bac to my m1 Mac mini and work from there.

[FourthWorld]

...hesitant to upgrade it to Sonoma until I hear LiveCode runs on it. I haven’t yet found another app that crashes on the Sonoma beta. I thought the latest LiveCode releases were universal binaries.

Good to see you here, Hutch.

The latest LC builds are indeed universal binaries, but OS vendors will change APIs from time to time, Apple historically more so than others (Linux is flexible by nature, and Windows is heavily enterprise, where backwards compatibility is a very high priority).

xTalks are unusual beasts as far as applications go. Apple provides excellent tools, but they're all predicated on an otherwise-reasonable assumption that a developer will be making a fixed thing, a UI and underlying business logic set up in advance in ways that don't change much at runtime.

xTalks are almost the opposite of this presumption, environments in which almost nothing is established at engine compile time, everything we make figured out and presented by the engine dynamically at runtime.

This seems a subtle difference, and it reflects well on the quality of the engine team's work that we so often take the herculean nature of the engine's role for granted.

But it's no small feat. As Mark Lucas, lead dev for SuperCard, puts it, it's like working on a fan motor by having to stick your fingers between the fan blades.

So, as Steve Jobs outlined in his infamous 2010 missive "Thoughts on Flash", we can expect a lag time between most new OS releases and any powerful authoring tool that depends on it.

This is pretty consistent with LC, as is their long history of making the sometimes-exoensive changes needed to stay on top of OS changes before the final release of a given OS version.

Since the latest macOS beta was made available less than 72 hours ago, LC Ltd's track record suggests they're downloaded it and are evaluating the scope of needed changes, but it's a bit early to expect full compatibility just yet.

Barring any circumstances more unusual than anything we've seen before, I expect they'll have a fresh compatible build for the latest macOS before that OS version leaves Beta, just like they've always done.

Along the way, it may be helpful to submit crash logs with a bug report to help ensure they tuck all the corners.

[richmond62]

I, like the sucker I am, am typing this on my Android phone while my 2018 Intel Mac Mini churns away installing the MacOS 14 beta . . .

What a bloody fool . . . Well, we shall see.

Watch this space:
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Not too closely: it'll make your eyes go funny.

Just restoring all the guff I had to offload onto external drives to make space for the installer . . .

[richmond62]

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Crash report attached in RTF format:

[richmond62]

Don't have time just now, but THIS is probably my next move:

https://www.igeeksblog.com/how-to-downg ... sing-data/

As made a Time machine backup 15 minutes before installing MacOS 14.
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[Hutchboy]

Smart doing the Time Machine backup first. I have never used Time Machine. On the intel Mac mini I had upgraded to the Sonoma Beta, I just switch the startup disk and boot into a LiveCode compatible MacOS when I want to run LiveCode again on that machine. I see you had a similar crash report to the one I saw so at least I am in good company. When I see the next Sonoma beta update I will try opening LiveCode again.

[richmond62]

I wonder if my Mac Mini can boot from an external hard drive with a Time machine restored Ventura?

Not as easy as it might be as on doing CMD-R while rebooting I am offered the chance of doing something with my Time machine back up, but NOT installing MacOS Ventura.

[richmond62]

OK, OK: for those, like me, who are as kinky as hell read on:

everyone who is normal (whatever that means) go somewhere else and do something healthier.

Recipe for Disaster:

1. Go here: https://winebottler.kronenberg.org/ and download Winebottler 4.0.1.1.

2. Download a 32-bit Windows installer for Livecode [I chose LC 9.6.3. Community].

3. Go 'here' and do some careful reading: https://winebottler.kronenberg.org/documentation

where is says "Do Your Own'.

4. Mount the Winebottler DMG:
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Drag the 'Wine.app' and the 'WineBottler.app' things into your Applications directory.
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Open 'WineBottler' and click on 'Advanced:
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[richmond62]

AND, having messed around, the thing did NOT work.

Trying to run the Windows installer via the 'Wine.app' supplied with Winebottler also failed.
-------

--------
So:

https://appleinsider.com/inside/macos/t ... n-your-mac
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"Pruned 66 symbolic links from /usr/local" I do like that word 'pruned'.

"Once Wine is installed, you can run any Wine-compatible Windows application simply by double-clicking it in the Finder like you would any other app, or first downloading and running its Windows installer just as you would on Windows. A Wine emulator is not available with the Wine package."

Really?

AND 'The Moment of Truth' . . .
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Odd that WINE did not show up as an option.

Let's try a reboot.

[richmond62]

So: fiddling around, I have installed 'wine stable', but it does NOT open LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_3-Windows-x86.exe.

Nor does it run Tetris: so this is probably a problem between MacOS 14 and WINE, rather than between WINE and LiveCode.

https://softfamous.com/tetris/download/

[richmond62]

Attempted to run LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_3-Windows-x86_64.exe via the terminal and got this:

################################################################################
# Wine Is Not an Emulator #
################################################################################

Welcome to wine-8.0.1.

In order to start a program:
.exe: wine64 program.exe
.msi: wine64 msiexec /i program.msi

If you want to configure wine:
wine64 winecfg

To get information about app compatibility:
appdb Program Name

richmond@Richmonds-Mac-mini ~ % wine64 /Users/richmond/Desktop/Nooo/LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_3-Windows-x86_64.exe
*** Terminating app due to uncaught exception 'NSInvalidArgumentException', reason: '+[Swift.__StringStorage newTaggedNSStringWithASCIIBytes_:length_:]: unrecognized selector sent to class 0x7ff859271070'
*** First throw call stack:
(
0 CoreFoundation 0x00007ff815eaec42 __exceptionPreprocess + 242
1 libobjc.A.dylib 0x00007ff8159a32c1 objc_exception_throw + 48
2 CoreFoundation 0x00007ff815f5273c -[NSObject(NSObject) doesNotRecognizeSelector:] + 0
3 CoreFoundation 0x00007ff815e1c4a1 ___forwarding___ + 1379
4 CoreFoundation 0x00007ff815e1bea8 _CF_forwarding_prep_0 + 120
5 libswiftCore.dylib 0x00007ff8266e1d8a $sSS23_bridgeToObjectiveCImplyXlyF + 170
6 Foundation 0x00007ff816fe648d $s10Foundation11LocaleCacheV18preferredLanguages14forCurrentUserSaySSGSb_tFTf4nd_n + 45
7 Foundation 0x00007ff8171b298f $sSo8NSLocaleC10FoundationE33_preferredLanguagesForCurrentUser33_9CF57171D9878F97AD4FAD15D782DF7FLLySaySSGSbFZTo + 31
8 CoreFoundation 0x00007ff815e383c4 CFLocaleCopyPreferredLanguages + 26
9 ntdll.so 0x00000000680a45b5 ntdll_get_data_dir + 1797
10 ntdll.so 0x00000000680bc16a __wine_main + 186
11 wine64 0x000000006801e819 main + 745
12 wine64 0x000000006801e524 start + 52
)
libc++abi: terminating due to uncaught exception of type NSException
zsh: abort wine64
richmond@Richmonds-Mac-mini ~ %