Hardware section / Operating system section

[stam]

Jacque, were on the same page - the only correction I would make is that if using an Intel Mac and not M1/M2, you can most certainly install from USB with no internet connection (just use OpenCore Patcher to create a bootable USB - if you have an older Mac you want to update you OpenCore Patcher is a must).

The issue the Rob was raising was I think using said systems offline, as he was concerned you couldn't run Windows or MacOS correctly without good internet connectivity, but as you say you certainly can (although can't imagine it would be much fun using a Chromebook in this way )

As you say both Google and Apple seem to have the highest regard for privacy, but Google does have a history of changing policies radically and dropping services with very short notice (if I'm not mistaken they most recently just ditched their streaming gaming platform that had a large subscriber base and many developers were left hanging with broken businesses). Although I'm not aware of any privacy issues ever raised so far, the Google cultures does not inspire me with confidence...

As for Linux - this will also work fine and can be installed with no internet connectivity (although you probably need internet connectivity to sort out driver issues as I recently discovered). If you have an old Windows PC this may be the best (and free) way to go.

So returning to the Rob's conundrum:

My old HP Win 10 box is getting long in the tooth, and I am very interested in exploring developing LC Android apps on a ChromeBox.

I'd suggest a good option would be to keep the old PC and either replace Windows10 completely with Linux or dual boot Into Linux if important to keep a Win box around. Ubuntu variants are by and large easy to install (as far as these things go)... I've recently installed Mint Cinnamon on a 2012 MBP and it works well, but if on a creaky old PC maybe something like Mint XFCE may perform a lot better...

[jacque]

I'm not too worried about Google, they keep things to themselves. But developers often refer to the Google Graveyard where apps go to die. Stadia, the gaming platform, was the most recent demise but there are three or four chat aps buried there and dozens of other experimental apps that didn't build traction. Hangouts got squashed recently too.

I'd install Linux on my ancient MacBook Air if I knew how.

[stam]

I'd install Linux on my ancient MacBook Air if I knew how.

I recently did exactly this on 2 of my older MBPs, it's not overly difficult:

1. Download a Linux .ISO (I found that Linux Mint does a good job of respecting Apple hardware, even if it's not my favourite from the point of view of how it looks)

2. Download Balena Etcher

3. Get a USB stick with at least 8 Gb storage and which you don’t mind wiping completely

4. If you want to dual-boot, you need to partition the MBA drive, you should be able to do this with Disk Utility.app. Create a smaller partition the same size as your physical memory and call it SWAP. Create 2nd partition with as much storage as you can, call it LINUX or some such. Format them both as FAT-32.
Of course if you don’t want to dual-boot ignore this step.

5. Use Etcher to “flash” the USB with the .iso to create a bootable USB.

6. With the USB inserted reboot and hold down the the Option key as soon as machine reboots and choose the EFI drive that appears (this is the general way to dual boot even after Linux installation).
This will boot into Linux and you can either choose to either wipe the drive completely and supplant the existing OS completely or choose “Other” to install on partitions.
If the latter make sure you assign the SWAP partition as a swap and format the larger FAT-32 partition to ext4 and assign it as your root mounting at “/“.

7. I found that after installation, my WiFi didn't work on both occasions - this is a known issue and easily resolved: After installing Linux and rebooting, open the app for driver management and click 'use disk', having re-inserted the installation USB which actually contains the driver but doesn't install it automatically (annoyingly) - this should show at least one 'proprietary' driver for your WiFI (Apple uses Broadcom chipsets). Select the driver and reboot and the machine should then be fully ready to use.

From the point of view of the look and feel of the OS, I actually prefer ElementaryOS - early attempts with this stalled as I hadn't figured out how to sort the WiFi problem. I'll probably have another go at this when I have time and wipe my existing Linux Mint.


...Of course the bigger issue why bother: MacOS performs really quite well even on a heavily used 11 year old laptop (to the point that if this was my only machine I'd still be happy to use this other than for it's battery life, which Linux just makes worse), so I'm still trying to figure out if the effort was even worth it. The 'good' FOSS stuff on Linux largely exists for MacOS as well so I've yet to really grasp the actual value in this and really it was just an experiment as my old laptops have fallen into disuse

And in general, this is the problem with Mac hardware - they go on for years and perform quite well - upgrading is always an uneasy decision but once you do, you don't look back. But because they are lovely machines the older ones are hard to get rid of... I have a veritable graveyard of Macs that still work but which I don't know what to do with (from the late 80s onwards). But not sure installing Linux does much to improve usability (or maybe I just haven't yet found the added value of Linux).

S.

[richmond62]

Personally I'd plump for Xubuntu: light, desktop looks like Windows XP, and easy to install extra stuff should you need to.

[richmond62]

For PPC Macs I install Shuriken.

[stam]

For PPC Macs I install Shuriken.

can you post a link? I have an old PPC laptop kicking around somewhere, but couldn't find a 'Shuriken' distro anywhere...
Most linux references to 'shuriken' seem to reference music software or games.

Also, I'll pass on WinXP look and feel personally

[richmond62]

https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/shuriken


https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/sorbet-leopard


Great fun!

[jacque]

@Stam: Thanks! I may try installing Linux if I get brave enough. The only problem with my ancient MacBook Air is the internet connection. For security I changed my router to use WPA3 and the old Air doesn't work with that. If there were a way to install a driver or whatever I'd do that. The machine works fine otherwise. All I've needed to do for it after all these years is replace the hard drive.

[RCozens]

Thank you all for your suggestions and thoughtful replies.

My new Linux box, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CBQXCQQ7, has been shipped. As estimated, the box and keyboard/track pad cost $150 including tax.

I'm stoked!

Rob

[stam]

@Stam: Thanks! I may try installing Linux if I get brave enough. The only problem with my ancient MacBook Air is the internet connection. For security I changed my router to use WPA3 and the old Air doesn't work with that. If there were a way to install a driver or whatever I'd do that. The machine works fine otherwise. All I've needed to do for it after all these years is replace the hard drive.

Your best bet is probably buying a USB Wi-Fi dongle - these are small and inexpensive (Amazon is your friend!) and should allow you to connect to WPA3. If you then decide you want to install Linux anyway, you just need to make sure you can find a linux driver for whatever chipset the dongle uses….

For example : https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-WN8 ... C73&sr=8-3

This is advertised as compatible with both Mac, PC and Linux (so presumably drivers are easily available) and not a bad deal for £6.99!

[stam]

Thank you all for your suggestions and thoughtful replies.

My new Linux box, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CBQXCQQ7, has been shipped. As estimated, the box and keyboard/track pad cost $150 including tax.

I'm stoked!

Rob

Looks quite good value for money! Curious as to how the celery processor will perform, let us know!

[richmond62]

Those TP link WIFI dongles work with Linux straight out of the box: no drivers, just plug and . . .
-

-
I am the owner of 6 of these for the ancient machines I use in my classroom in the home for Ukrainian refugees.

[SparkOut]

Ah, but that adapter (WN-722 N) is not (I believe) capable of WPA3.
While WPA3 is an improvement on security over WPA2, it does have its own flaws and vulnerabilities.

[stam]

https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/shuriken


https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/sorbet-leopard


Great fun!

Thanks for the links, that looks seriously cool

[richmond62]

I have a G4 Mac Mini with Mac Shuriken & Classic (for fooling around with HyperCard), and a PPC iMac with Sorbet Leopard [not, frankly, worth the prolonged fiddle setting it up].

Both of those systems speed the machines up considerably.

I have the Sorbet Leopard home-grown app store running on Shuriken . . .

I only wish that clever chap could do the same sort of thing with MacOS 10.7, as I swear I can hear gear wheels grinding away on my 2 INTEL Polycarbonate iMacs that run 'Lion' (a pretty toothless big cat these days).