BBC article about HyperCard
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
Very nice entry Andre, well put and well explained.
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
I'd at least send out a press release about my product.FourthWorld wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:11 amWhat are they supposed to say?richmond62 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:24 amEvery time something like this comes up I always wonder why LiveCode the company
say nothing.
D. John Downs | Old school HyperCard enthusiast | Novice LC Indy hobbyist
I have an extremely busy career, so please forgive my "come and go" manner.
I have an extremely busy career, so please forgive my "come and go" manner.
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
I asked Kevin about that. Like many dev tool companies, he reports that he's found diminish returns with press releases in recent years, now devoting that time to boosting their YouTube channel instead.hypercardjdowns wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:40 pmI'd at least send out a press release about my product.
Richard Gaskin
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LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems
LiveCode Group on Facebook
LiveCode Group on LinkedIn
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
I don't know what Kevin may have found and what he thinks about pushing LiveCode,
but certain facts speak for themselves:
1. LiveCode IS a minority thing that is NOT gaining any obvious traction.
2. I advertise LiveCode classes for children and young adults each year and
spend a ludicrous amount of time justifying my choice of LiveCode, and would
have far greater uptake for out-dated and out-moded ways of programming
computers such as C++ and the reborn-PASCAL rip-off Python.
3. I have children, who, every year are managing to get stuff going inwith
2 weeks (16 45 minute sessions) that learners of C++ at courses run round
these parts don't get to after 12 weeks.
ALSO:
Kevin IS a computer programmer of undisputed brilliance,
but he is NOT an expert in Education or Advertising; so, perhaps he might decide to
employ the odd expert in these fields to do some educational and market
research and develop strategies in these areas accordingly.
but certain facts speak for themselves:
1. LiveCode IS a minority thing that is NOT gaining any obvious traction.
2. I advertise LiveCode classes for children and young adults each year and
spend a ludicrous amount of time justifying my choice of LiveCode, and would
have far greater uptake for out-dated and out-moded ways of programming
computers such as C++ and the reborn-PASCAL rip-off Python.
3. I have children, who, every year are managing to get stuff going inwith
2 weeks (16 45 minute sessions) that learners of C++ at courses run round
these parts don't get to after 12 weeks.
ALSO:
Kevin IS a computer programmer of undisputed brilliance,
but he is NOT an expert in Education or Advertising; so, perhaps he might decide to
employ the odd expert in these fields to do some educational and market
research and develop strategies in these areas accordingly.
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
Have you considered the possibility that there may be many reasons why LC is not the world's most popular language beyond just press releases?
It's also worth noting that out of all the many hundreds of languages in use, LC has grown to become consistently included in the TIOBE Top 100 over the last two years. So adoption growth, while not beyond reasonable expectations, is demonstrably good.
Seriously, spend time with Java, Python, JavaScript, and C++ devs. Learn about those languages, and why developers use them. Hint: it isn't press releases.
Or, since you keep insisting this is somehow easy, show us how it's done: build a product in a highly competitive space where most of your competition is entirely free and very deeply entrenched for historical reasons, get your offering to #1, and show us how you did it.
A presumably simple exercise, is it not?
It's also worth noting that out of all the many hundreds of languages in use, LC has grown to become consistently included in the TIOBE Top 100 over the last two years. So adoption growth, while not beyond reasonable expectations, is demonstrably good.
Seriously, spend time with Java, Python, JavaScript, and C++ devs. Learn about those languages, and why developers use them. Hint: it isn't press releases.
Or, since you keep insisting this is somehow easy, show us how it's done: build a product in a highly competitive space where most of your competition is entirely free and very deeply entrenched for historical reasons, get your offering to #1, and show us how you did it.
A presumably simple exercise, is it not?
Richard Gaskin
LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems
LiveCode Group on Facebook
LiveCode Group on LinkedIn
LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems
LiveCode Group on Facebook
LiveCode Group on LinkedIn
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
I'll add that the education market was the primary target for uptake and promotion a few years ago. That's how Scotland adopted LC as their intro programming language a few years ago. Focus then shifted to China (successful) and some other countries where it couldn't compete against educators who wanted to only teach free and widely established languages.
I'm not sure why you assume they didn't have a marketing director. They did.
I'm not sure why you assume they didn't have a marketing director. They did.
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
Really?Scotland adopted LC as their intro programming language a few years ago.
That's a very odd statement as a web search for this flags up:
"C+, C#, Java, Python and Ruby" (not entirely sure what "C+" is).
https://www.scotsman.com/future-scotlan ... -1-4001065
Certainly NO mention of LiveCode.
A few schools, maybe: but "Scotland" . . . want to be careful of global, sweeping statements like that.
Certainly, Gracemount school does not constitute "Scotland."
I didn't assume that LiveCode didn't have a marketing director, what I did see is that that marketing directorI'm not sure why you assume they didn't have a marketing director. They did.
doesn't seem to have marketed LiveCode to the extent that one would have hoped for.
Last edited by richmond62 on Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
If LiveCode is "so big" in Scotland,
how come the only Scotsman who is posting anything about LiveCode stays in Bulgaria?
https://community.computingatschool.org ... =resources
how come the only Scotsman who is posting anything about LiveCode stays in Bulgaria?
https://community.computingatschool.org ... =resources
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
I probably phrased that badly. As I understand it, Scottish government controls much of the educational curriculum, and has included LC as a language suitable for students learning to code. More than 30% of the secondary schools in Scotland are using it as an introductory programming language as of 6 years ago.
http://newsletters.livecode.com/july/is ... etter3.php
http://newsletters.livecode.com/july/is ... etter3.php
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
Never mind; on the second go you phrased it admirably.I probably phrased that badly.
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
It's been a forever mystery to me why xTalk has made so few inroads, in the grand scheme of things. There is an enormous push for "coding" classes across the United States, and I never hear word one about xTalk.jacque wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:35 pmI probably phrased that badly. As I understand it, Scottish government controls much of the educational curriculum, and has included LC as a language suitable for students learning to code. More than 30% of the secondary schools in Scotland are using it as an introductory programming language as of 6 years ago.
My son is currently at Purdue, studying mathematics. He has to take a coding class, so they push them all into to VB. We just started a new coding class in my school district. They are teaching it with C or some such.
It's ridiculous.
D. John Downs | Old school HyperCard enthusiast | Novice LC Indy hobbyist
I have an extremely busy career, so please forgive my "come and go" manner.
I have an extremely busy career, so please forgive my "come and go" manner.
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
It's a catch-22. Schools want to teach what's currently in demand, which means they don't teach LC, which means it doesn't become in demand.
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
Personally I think that's nonsense for the following reasons:what's currently in demand
1. ALL programming languages are built on the same underlying concepts
(i.e. unless you are a moron, having learnt one programming language
you can get up to speed reasonably quickly with another).
2. Employers generally want programmers post-university, so which
programming language they learnt at High School generally has no
bearing on things.
Re: BBC article about HyperCard
Ok, you got me, I'm a moron. Even though I've known (and used) quite a few languages, I've never found learning the next to be reasonably quick, although I hear that said a lot. Also, going from more traditional languages to *this* one was quite making me feel even more idiotic than usualrichmond62 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:16 pm1. ALL programming languages are built on the same underlying conceptswhat's currently in demand
(i.e. unless you are a moron, having learnt one programming language
you can get up to speed reasonably quickly with another).
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Re: BBC article about HyperCard
Dunno . . .
I went from FORTRAN IV, DBAS9 (early BASIC dialect), BBC BASIC, PASCAL V, ZILOG . . .
HyperCard, ToolBook (easily the lowest point in my programming life),
MetaCard, RunRev/LiveCode, Visual BASIC 6 (aberrational moment when
doing an MSc at a Mickey Mouse university).
Honestly the thing that helped me most re HyperCard and onwards was
BASIC.
I went from FORTRAN IV, DBAS9 (early BASIC dialect), BBC BASIC, PASCAL V, ZILOG . . .
HyperCard, ToolBook (easily the lowest point in my programming life),
MetaCard, RunRev/LiveCode, Visual BASIC 6 (aberrational moment when
doing an MSc at a Mickey Mouse university).
Honestly the thing that helped me most re HyperCard and onwards was
BASIC.