Using substacks versus external stacks

Anything beyond the basics in using the LiveCode language. Share your handlers, functions and magic here.

Moderators: Klaus, FourthWorld, heatherlaine, robinmiller, kevinmiller

bogs
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:45 pm

Re: Using substacks versus external stacks

Post by bogs » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:47 am

Hm. Something must be causing it, only things that come to my mind that really changed would be that and the much heavier use of behaviors in the IDE. The engine itself is faster, I think, so what is left?
Image

FourthWorld
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
Posts: 7024
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:05 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Using substacks versus external stacks

Post by FourthWorld » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:55 pm

Parts of the engine are faster. Others are more complete. Pretty much every language I've seen takes a performance hit when they adopt Unicode, which in LC happened with v7, among the slowest builds ever.

Since then things have improved, and some things are faster than ever before. But all the while internal text is now two bytes wide, meaning more RAM, larger mallocs, new encoding conversions, etc. All just the price we pay for modern text.

With the IDE, I think the main difference is that there's a lot more code in recent versions.

MC is fast because it does so little. ;)
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

bogs
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:45 pm

Re: Using substacks versus external stacks

Post by bogs » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:01 pm

FourthWorld wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:55 pm
With the IDE, I think the main difference is that there's a lot more code in recent versions.
...MC is fast because it does so little. ;)
Interesting thought, but I was actually comparing 7.x to 8.x, and 8.x to 9.x. In each case, the IDE became less and less responsive, despite improvements to the engine. The major changes between those versions is no longer unicode, hence I suspect something else is going on.

Since 7 appears (at least on my box) as fast as 6.x or even Mc or, alternately, isn't slower by enough to notice, and 8.x is only slightly slower, it leads me to look at the other major changes, which seem to be a lot more use of behaviors and script only stacks. If those aren't the only major changes, then I am missing something else to look at.
Image

FourthWorld
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
Posts: 7024
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:05 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Using substacks versus external stacks

Post by FourthWorld » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:40 am

bogs wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:01 pm
FourthWorld wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:55 pm
With the IDE, I think the main difference is that there's a lot more code in recent versions.
...MC is fast because it does so little. ;)
Interesting thought, but I was actually comparing 7.x to 8.x, and 8.x to 9.x. In each case, the IDE became less and less responsive, despite improvements to the engine. The major changes between those versions is no longer unicode, hence I suspect something else is going on.
Exactly. Differences with the IDE are likely because the IDE contains more code, pretty much with each version.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

bogs
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:45 pm

Re: Using substacks versus external stacks

Post by bogs » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:12 pm

Huh, and here I thought using behaviors and script only stacks was supposed to result in *less* code, or am I getting that wrong? Also I would think that it would take an order of magnitude more code than the previous IDEs had to generate this kind of sluggishness in the IDE, but I'm almost certain that the code base hasn't changed that much.
Image

FourthWorld
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
Posts: 7024
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:05 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Using substacks versus external stacks

Post by FourthWorld » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:34 pm

bogs wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:12 pm
Huh, and here I thought using behaviors and script only stacks was supposed to result in *less* code, or am I getting that wrong? Also I would think that it would take an order of magnitude more code than the previous IDEs had to generate this kind of sluggishness in the IDE, but I'm almost certain that the code base hasn't changed that much.
It's not so much the quantity of code as what the code is doing.

Recent versions have added features that invoke a lot of routines with every keystroke.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

bogs
Posts: 3996
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:45 pm

Re: Using substacks versus external stacks

Post by bogs » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:48 pm

I see (I think).
Image

Post Reply

Return to “Talking LiveCode”