Livecode Create - thoughts?

[richmond62]

"free months"

A redefinition of 'free' surely?

[bwmilby]

Forums for Create:
https://discourse.livecode.com/

[AndyP]

Just looked at the LiveCode Create forums, looks like a nice system. Concerning is the low number of users registered at 75. https://discourse.livecode.com/u?order=likes_received ls this an indication of low Create adoption?

Also if I remember correctly, wasn't LiveCode 10 supposed to be the first version with the new ide, what happened to change this?

Looking through the Create forums, I found this little nugget from Stephen at LiveCode, mentioning possible plans for LiveCode 11.
https://discourse.livecode.com/t/pretty ... c-ide/28/2

[stam]

Just looked at the LiveCode Create forums, looks like a nice system. Concerning is the low number of users registered at 75. https://discourse.livecode.com/u?order=likes_received ls this an indication of low Create adoption?

Also if I remember correctly, wasn't LiveCode 10 supposed to be the first version with the new ide, what happened to change this?

Looking through the Create forums, I found this little nugget from Stephen at LiveCode, mentioning possible plans for LiveCode 11.
https://discourse.livecode.com/t/pretty ... c-ide/28/2

It seems that roadmaps are not binding; remember, at the time of the 2nd link you quote, LiveCode was supposed to continue it's normal trajectory, while Create was going to be it's own beast.

I too seem to recall LiveCode 10 was largely about the new interface, but this has been reneged on. I gather that this is not the first time for such things in LC's long history.

The (unforeseen by all users of LiveCode) introduction of yet another licensing scheme means that the previously declared roadmap has changed.
There is no new interface for old LC - this is being rolled into Create instead, with the desktop version branded "LiveCode Create Universal" now. There will be no "LiveCode 11". And, as I understand it, no 'compiled scripts' for the foreseeable.
Personally think it would have been more attractive to just brand everything as LiveCode 11 and drop the "Create" moniker. But what do I know...

"Classic" LC will, as I understand it, be maintained at the final version of LC 10, which as we're now in RC1 means it won't be significantly different from what we already know, in other words the same, tired, 20+ year old interface in spite the many improvements under the hood.

The low number of users on that discourse forum are largely because the way it came into being, by being part of the original LiveCode Create pre-release. I suspect this has been a driver to motivate more users to using the new platform and coming up with this new licensing scheme to do so.

But yes, it is a concern nevertheless, as is the whiplash-inducing speed of licensing changes...

[bamakojeff]

But yes, it is a concern nevertheless, as is the whiplash-inducing speed of licensing changes...

Without disagreeing with anything that has been said on this thread, I'd like to offer a perspective which you are, of course, welcome to take or leave.

I am very encouraged by the admittedly, "whiplash-inducing speed" of changes going on with Create. Licensing text which changes daily; features that work, then don't work, then sort-of work again; interfaces which look totally different from the demo - this feels a lot like the normal software development cycle. To me, all this says that Livecode is being developed by "software geeks" not "software marketers." I find that very comforting.

They are putting out Create the way "software geeks" develop software - lots of small incremental changes. "Move fast and break things." Try it one way and if that doesn't work, try it a different way. When you wake up in the middle of the night and realize that there's a much better way to solve a problem, get up right then, fire up your laptop, rip out all the old code, and write new, better code. (And then explain to your colleagues the next morning why the UI is so much simpler.) I want to buy software that has been developed by "software geek," rather than buying software that was developed by "software marketers."

So yes, a lot of this could be handled better. There are numerous bugs in Create; there are numerous missing features. There are "bugs" in the licensing "code." But I'm confident that Livecode will get them fixed, because they are "software geeks." So am I. So are a lot of you. If you find a bug in my code, I'm going to fix it. And if you point out a feature that I should have included, I'm going to add it. Bugs may not get fixed today and features may not get added this release, but I will get there eventually. And I'm confident that Livecode will as well.

Perhaps I'm naive, and obviously, this is just my "two cents" (as we say in the States - does that idiom translate?) But I'm encouraged by the rapid pace of change. I"ll happily take this over the myriad of marketing pitches ("Our software will solve all your problems today!") I've heard over the years for software which never did even half of what was promised.

Here endeth the soliloquy! Thanks for listening.

[stam]

I am very encouraged by the admittedly, "whiplash-inducing speed" of changes going on with Create.

You misunderstand; it's not about the speed at which Create is being pushed. Rapid development is always welcome.
It's the speed at which u-turns in policies are being taken, or at least presented to the company's customers.

In 3 years LC has gone from

• dumping it's core clientele (albeit non-paying opensource users)
• to going the other extreme and pushing for top-dollar for standard licence (doubling or tripling the cost of what used to be LiveCode Indie)
• to promising LiveCode 10 with brand new interface - another crowdfund
• to announcing compiled scripts - a promise that won't materialise, at least not for a long time - another crowdfund
• to then pushing LiveCode Create as a parallel product to LiveCode 10+ - another crowdfund
• to now officially killing LiveCode 10 (in 2027) and pushing LiveCode Create with new licensing - another crowdfund

Not many companies behave like this - it's one thing to be agile, this is on a different level.

The concern is that this does not reflect a happy state of affairs...
Sure, we're all backing LC and I know many of us, myself included, have purchased the new licence in way of support. By my reckoning, the current push to purchase discounted licences is the 4th crowdfund in the 4 years I've been using LC, and of which I've backed 3). Unless you count the summer megabundle which I also purchased.

Without specifically and aggressively targeting new cohorts of developers with an MVP, this risks being a strategy of diminishing returns, which no one wants to see.
And I would not class Create as a Minimum Viable Product as yet.

[amay123]

Or will the subscription expire and there is no way to renew it?

1. Or will it become a lifetime licence with no further renewal fee?

That would not be in Livecode Ltd.´s interest. They need to earn money and this of course okay. I am pretty sure the vast majority of subscribers then wouldn't switch to the new product as long as possible.

Btw. I have here a commercial lifetime license (for current and also all future platforms) and I am even not sure that I can use LC after 2027....
Although I really hope that LC Ltd. will either keep their license servers running to unlock it or at least send me a permanent license file, that does not expire.

It makes sense that Livecode Ltd. would focus on revenue—it’s similar to platforms like **MwinGame**, where long-term user engagement and trust are key to sustainability. Just like you're hoping for continued access beyond 2027, MwinGame users also rely on consistent support and fair access to the services they’ve committed to.

[FourthWorld]

It makes sense that Livecode Ltd. would focus on revenue—it’s similar to platforms like **MwinGame**, where long-term user engagement and trust are key to sustainability. Just like you're hoping for continued access beyond 2027, MwinGame users also rely on consistent support and fair access to the services they’ve committed to.

Hi Amay. What are you building with LiveCode?

[Simon Knight]

Hi Amay. What are you building with LiveCode?

Richard, I don't think you are going to get a reply.

So whats happening in the brave new world of Livecode Create or bump if you will?

[FourthWorld]

Hi Amay. What are you building with LiveCode?

Richard, I don't think you are going to get a reply.

I suspect you're right, but before I ban a user and delete their content I usually offer the benefit of doubt. Once in a great while it's an actual earnest person who merely writes clumsily.

o whats happening in the brave new world of Livecode Create or bump if you will?

"or bump"?

[Simon Knight]

"bump" as in bump this thread to the top of the lists. I said bump as I basically asked the same question a year ago.

I'm asking again because I am about to start a project to build an Arduino based device to measure the distance that drivers give me when I am out on my bicycle. The latest Arduino Uno has WiFi and Bluetooth built in so I may have a try at writing an app to receive the data on my Android phone. I could write in Livecode but I am not convinced of how secure its future is. I've looked at the LCC forum which seems very quiet with only 120 odd members of course all the chat could be elsewhere.

Stam has recently written elsewhere on this forum that LCC is still very much in development and is not a finished product which is of concern.

I suppose I should write the App in Livecode then look at producing a version using Kotlin and Android Studio.

best wishes

Simon

[stam]

Stam has recently written elsewhere on this forum that LCC is still very much in development and is not a finished product which is of concern.

Hopefully I haven’t been misunderstood… LCC allows you to launch the IDE in “classic” mode which is basically LC10 but with the new widgets as well. So will not be any more of an issue than previous iterations of LC. The new IDE probably isn’t ready for prime time, but you can deploy standalones with the new IDE as well…

[Simon Knight]

Hopefully I haven’t been misunderstood…

Hi Stam et al,

No, I think I understand. Livecode Create is still in what is described as Early Access which is to say unfinished. Its the only option on the web site to those who are new to the platform. However, a new license includes access to a version of Livecode 10 that includes widgets that are only available to Livecode Create license holders. A number of these widgets have had issues which may have been fixed, its hard to tell.

The Livecode quality control centre lists a few bug reports for Livecode Create but none for DP5 onwards which is either encouraging or odd given that DP8 was launched in August 2025. Confusingly the Livecode Create Forum includes a section for bug reports and shows some activity. I suspect that this section is a throw back to the days when Livecode Create was known as Xavvi. Unfortunately the overall impression is that bug reporting is slightly chaotic and lacks structure.

S

[golife]

THINKING OUT OF THE BOX

Today I taught LiveCode to a 14-year-old Ukrainian student, and it is still fun and would be/would have been so great to see LiveCode as a true alternative to existing languages.

But is the future for LC/LC Script bright enough to invest time, money, enthusiasm, hopes...?

With the help of ChatGPT, I successfully finished a number of tools and projects using Python, JavaScript, Poweshell, and C#. I was also able to integrate them well with LiveCode -- especially using LC as the user-interface app. LiveCode has strengths that need to be exposed, even, and especially, to other tools.

LiveCode could be a tool to be part of the HUGE Python world -- giving a user-friendly face to Python. Maybe even a Python editor could be used... Well, talking to myself, that is wildly going off-road, of course.

Or LiveCode could make big money being a product such as Zoho -- an online tool that has a huge business community -- if there is any path to compete. But that is a very long way to go, given what we offer right now.

What will happen if LiveCode stays in the current niche...?

It may die. The AI train is already running for years now.

And to not have a free version for testing for at least 3 months, and a very simple but extremely well-done beginner's course that is more than just getting the feet wet, will limit the market in a huge way -- if there is any market left for our niche.

What did I use the teach this young student? The last free version that is available and still good enough for learning.

Turn Around

Or turn around 180 degrees and have a really free version, and only a free version. Get money from donations, incentives, ready-made apps, sponsorship, co-marketing, even well-placed advertising. Such money will come if all is done with enthusiasm and fresh energy.

I would support a new LiveCode Community "LCC" also financially -- get rid of the paid versions.
But the way to do this, how to attract thousands of supporting users -- that has not been a strength of LiveCode Ltd.

The already not so "new" licensing model will not work. I predict. The user base is tiny. It is too small to do anything.

Win back the community.

Regards, Roland

[Simon Knight]

But is the future for LC/LC Script bright enough to invest time, money, enthusiasm, hopes...?

Unfortunately its rather more a candle in the wind when the rest of the world has arc lamps. How can Livecode compete when the likes of Kotlin, Flutter and others are pretty much in the same space, fully supported and free to download and use.

There comes a time when you realise you are flogging a dead horse : I just don't see how Livecode Create will save the day. All competition has AI and as you say ChatGPT can also be used. Would you advise a young programmer to use Livecode? I doubt it, lets face it few outside of this forum has ever heard of the language?

especially using LC as the user-interface app. LiveCode has strengths that need to be exposed, even, and especially, to other tools.

LiveCode could be a tool to be part of the HUGE Python world -- giving a user-friendly face to Python. Maybe even a Python editor could be used... Well, talking to myself, that is wildly going off-road, of course.

Sounds like a good idea to me as long as it was priced low enough to encourage Python users to buy it.

best wishes
Simon