The end of XTalk / LiveCode for me

[MichaelBluejay]

After nearly 40 years, I'm done with XTalk. In the beginning I loved the ability to quickly make real apps with HyperCard, but today I can make web-based apps with Javascript + SQL, which is easy, cheap, and gives way better performance.

When HyperCard came out in 1987 I was blown away. I actually took a trip to Dallas to hear Bill Atkinson (its creator) speak about it.

Circa 1995 I made a note-taking app with it that I called ScatterBrains. I used an interface that I saw in another obscure app: a list on the left hand side, which pulled in content into the main pane on the right. Prior to this, all apps required the user to open a new document/window to get new data. If you had 20 documents/notes, then you had 20 windows, ugh. Nowadays that kind of list+content pane interface is ubiquitous, but I saw its value early on and adopted it years before it became commonplace.

Some years later I ported ScatterBrains to SuperCard, probably because HyperCard probably wouldn't run on a newer MacOS (or maybe because I wanted color), then later, to Revolution, which became LiveCode.

I just upgraded my computer from a 2013-era iMac to a 2022 Mac Studio, and LiveCode 9 won't run on my new Mac. Upgrading LiveCode costs $440 a year, which is not worth it for me to run some homegrown apps. That pushed me to port ScatterBrains to the web with Javascript + SQL, which I just finished. It's a much better result than I could have achieved with LiveCode, if for no other reason that the LiveCode engine payload is a whopping 8-16 Mb. In 2019, a simple Hello World script required a staggering 28 Mb.

Incidentally, I know there are a gazillion other note-taking apps I could use, but none has the features I want (especially hanging indents), so I rolled my own. It was also fairly easy for me to export my LC data to my new web-based app, while a third-party app would usually require copy-and-pasting a thousand notes.

I also wrote a double-entry accounting app in LiveCode a few years ago after the commercial app I paid for mangled my data and I didn't trust it any more, but I was never happy with my LC-based app. The DataGrid syntax was so insane it really killed the whole idea of XTalk being easy to program, and the performance (e.g., scrolling a table) was just glacial. I'll be porting the accounting app to the web too, using a Javascript + SQL solution, and expect to get way better performance than I got with LC/Data Grid.

LiveCode's advantage is the ability to make apps easily. Is there any other these days? Since I'm content to go web-based for my projects instead of making apps, for myself, I no longer need XTalk/LiveCode.

[keliko]

Really interesting to read about your journey from HyperCard to web-based apps. As for me, I still use LiveCode because, as a solo developer, I appreciate how readable the code is and how quickly I can build something useful.
I also develop with C, Go, PureBasic, and FreeBasic — but I’m not interested in Xojo. When it comes to selling software, I still prefer using LiveCode.
I’ve stopped at LiveCode 10 and now use the Community edition. But if LiveCode Create is officially released (not just a developer preview), I’ll definitely buy it and I’m fine with the 5% revenue share.

So yeah... even though LiveCode drives me crazy sometimes, I still love it.

[richmond62]

I certainly would not consider buying 'Create' until I have had a decent amount of time to play with some sort of trial version.

[richmond62]

LiveCode 9 won't run on my new Mac.

That's odd: I run LC 9.6.3 on Mac OS Sequoia without any obvious problems.

[MichaelBluejay]

LC 9.6.3 on MacOS 15.5 starts to load, then when it says "Loading tools..." it quits unexpectedly.

But at this point, even if I could get it to run, I wouldn't use it any more. I'm nearly finished writing my new accounting app, and it's SO much easier to use HTML tables + Javascript vs. LC's DataGrid.