Livecode Create - thoughts?

[richmond62]

"free months"

A redefinition of 'free' surely?

[bwmilby]

Forums for Create:
https://discourse.livecode.com/

[AndyP]

Just looked at the LiveCode Create forums, looks like a nice system. Concerning is the low number of users registered at 75. https://discourse.livecode.com/u?order=likes_received ls this an indication of low Create adoption?

Also if I remember correctly, wasn't LiveCode 10 supposed to be the first version with the new ide, what happened to change this?

Looking through the Create forums, I found this little nugget from Stephen at LiveCode, mentioning possible plans for LiveCode 11.
https://discourse.livecode.com/t/pretty ... c-ide/28/2

[stam]

Just looked at the LiveCode Create forums, looks like a nice system. Concerning is the low number of users registered at 75. https://discourse.livecode.com/u?order=likes_received ls this an indication of low Create adoption?

Also if I remember correctly, wasn't LiveCode 10 supposed to be the first version with the new ide, what happened to change this?

Looking through the Create forums, I found this little nugget from Stephen at LiveCode, mentioning possible plans for LiveCode 11.
https://discourse.livecode.com/t/pretty ... c-ide/28/2

It seems that roadmaps are not binding; remember, at the time of the 2nd link you quote, LiveCode was supposed to continue it's normal trajectory, while Create was going to be it's own beast.

I too seem to recall LiveCode 10 was largely about the new interface, but this has been reneged on. I gather that this is not the first time for such things in LC's long history.

The (unforeseen by all users of LiveCode) introduction of yet another licensing scheme means that the previously declared roadmap has changed.
There is no new interface for old LC - this is being rolled into Create instead, with the desktop version branded "LiveCode Create Universal" now. There will be no "LiveCode 11". And, as I understand it, no 'compiled scripts' for the foreseeable.
Personally think it would have been more attractive to just brand everything as LiveCode 11 and drop the "Create" moniker. But what do I know...

"Classic" LC will, as I understand it, be maintained at the final version of LC 10, which as we're now in RC1 means it won't be significantly different from what we already know, in other words the same, tired, 20+ year old interface in spite the many improvements under the hood.

The low number of users on that discourse forum are largely because the way it came into being, by being part of the original LiveCode Create pre-release. I suspect this has been a driver to motivate more users to using the new platform and coming up with this new licensing scheme to do so.

But yes, it is a concern nevertheless, as is the whiplash-inducing speed of licensing changes...

[bamakojeff]

But yes, it is a concern nevertheless, as is the whiplash-inducing speed of licensing changes...

Without disagreeing with anything that has been said on this thread, I'd like to offer a perspective which you are, of course, welcome to take or leave.

I am very encouraged by the admittedly, "whiplash-inducing speed" of changes going on with Create. Licensing text which changes daily; features that work, then don't work, then sort-of work again; interfaces which look totally different from the demo - this feels a lot like the normal software development cycle. To me, all this says that Livecode is being developed by "software geeks" not "software marketers." I find that very comforting.

They are putting out Create the way "software geeks" develop software - lots of small incremental changes. "Move fast and break things." Try it one way and if that doesn't work, try it a different way. When you wake up in the middle of the night and realize that there's a much better way to solve a problem, get up right then, fire up your laptop, rip out all the old code, and write new, better code. (And then explain to your colleagues the next morning why the UI is so much simpler.) I want to buy software that has been developed by "software geek," rather than buying software that was developed by "software marketers."

So yes, a lot of this could be handled better. There are numerous bugs in Create; there are numerous missing features. There are "bugs" in the licensing "code." But I'm confident that Livecode will get them fixed, because they are "software geeks." So am I. So are a lot of you. If you find a bug in my code, I'm going to fix it. And if you point out a feature that I should have included, I'm going to add it. Bugs may not get fixed today and features may not get added this release, but I will get there eventually. And I'm confident that Livecode will as well.

Perhaps I'm naive, and obviously, this is just my "two cents" (as we say in the States - does that idiom translate?) But I'm encouraged by the rapid pace of change. I"ll happily take this over the myriad of marketing pitches ("Our software will solve all your problems today!") I've heard over the years for software which never did even half of what was promised.

Here endeth the soliloquy! Thanks for listening.

[stam]

I am very encouraged by the admittedly, "whiplash-inducing speed" of changes going on with Create.

You misunderstand; it's not about the speed at which Create is being pushed. Rapid development is always welcome.
It's the speed at which u-turns in policies are being taken, or at least presented to the company's customers.

In 3 years LC has gone from

• dumping it's core clientele (albeit non-paying opensource users)
• to going the other extreme and pushing for top-dollar for standard licence (doubling or tripling the cost of what used to be LiveCode Indie)
• to promising LiveCode 10 with brand new interface - another crowdfund
• to announcing compiled scripts - a promise that won't materialise, at least not for a long time - another crowdfund
• to then pushing LiveCode Create as a parallel product to LiveCode 10+ - another crowdfund
• to now officially killing LiveCode 10 (in 2027) and pushing LiveCode Create with new licensing - another crowdfund

Not many companies behave like this - it's one thing to be agile, this is on a different level.

The concern is that this does not reflect a happy state of affairs...
Sure, we're all backing LC and I know many of us, myself included, have purchased the new licence in way of support. By my reckoning, the current push to purchase discounted licences is the 4th crowdfund in the 4 years I've been using LC, and of which I've backed 3). Unless you count the summer megabundle which I also purchased.

Without specifically and aggressively targeting new cohorts of developers with an MVP, this risks being a strategy of diminishing returns, which no one wants to see.
And I would not class Create as a Minimum Viable Product as yet.