Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

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tetsuo29
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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by tetsuo29 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:40 pm

bwmilby wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:23 pm
Now that I see your actual recipe, I have reproduced the issue. One way to avoid the issue until fixed is to issue

Code: Select all

revcachegeometry true
In the message box before resizing after adding controls.
What I observed is that the cache distances were incorrectly updated when a control was added. When resizing, it uses the cached metrics so that is why it went wonky. The problem is not in the GM resize script, but in the IDE/GM cache setup. I don't have time to look at it now, but will try to see if I see anything this evening.
Cool. I'm glad someone who might be able to do something about it is now seeing it too. Any news on a fix yet? Will you keep us posted about a possible fix? Thx.

stam
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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by stam » Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:27 pm

bwmilby wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:23 pm
Now that I see your actual recipe, I have reproduced the issue. One way to avoid the issue until fixed is to issue

Code: Select all

revcachegeometry true
In the message box before resizing after adding controls.
actually running this after every GM change sorts the issues out completely.
How can we get LC / the mothership to automatically do this after every GM change? it would save so much headache.

In the mean time this does work...

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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by bwmilby » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:19 pm

I think the PI code is pretty solid (at least I have not seen an entry that I make not update properly). The issue that I’ve seen concerns added controls. The problem where I have not identified the source is that something is applying an invalid update when a control is added. The only thing that is being done though is updating the calculations for the object placement (not arbitrarily changing the behavior itself). That is why the above command fixes the problem. That command should already be issued when objects are added. I did not see anything obvious in the code that would cause this behavior but there is a bug that is fixed by issuing that command twice after adding new controls (only would be an issue if you tried to add a relative entry to the last control added before the command had run twice). I’ll need to add debug code to look further.
Brian Milby

Script Tracker https://github.com/bwmilby/scriptTracker

andresdt
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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by andresdt » Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:41 pm

Thanks to @bwmilby for the solution. Although I would like the revcachegeometry command to be executed automatically when creating a control. So create this patch for the GM.

Code: Select all

# Messages generated when creating a new object.
on newStack
    revcachegeometry true
end newStack

on newCard
    revcachegeometry true
end newCard

on newGroup
    revcachegeometry true
end newGroup

on newButton
    revcachegeometry true
end newButton

on newField
    revcachegeometry true
end newField

on newGraphic
    revcachegeometry true
end newGraphic

on newPlayer
    revcachegeometry true
end newPlayer

on newImage
    revcachegeometry true
end newImage

on newWidget
    revcachegeometry true
end newWidget

# Messages generated when deleting an object.
on deleteStack
    revcachegeometry true
end deleteStack

on deleteCard
    revcachegeometry true
end deleteCard

on deleteGroup
    revcachegeometry true
end deleteGroup

on deleteButton
    revcachegeometry true
end deleteButton

on deleteField
    revcachegeometry true
end deleteField

on deleteGraphic
    revcachegeometry true
end deleteGraphic

on deletePlayer
    revcachegeometry true
end deletePlayer

on deleteImage
    revcachegeometry true
end deleteImage

on deleteWidget
    revcachegeometry true
end deleteWidget

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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by tetsuo29 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:11 pm

Decided to check on the status of the bug report I filed back in March. It's still listed as "PENDING_AWAITING_FOLLOW_UP". Like, OMG, they do not, as they claim, 'take quality seriously'. Not. At. All.

stam
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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by stam » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:15 pm

tetsuo29 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:11 pm
Decided to check on the status of the bug report I filed back in March. It's still listed as "PENDING_AWAITING_FOLLOW_UP". Like, OMG, they do not, as they claim, 'take quality seriously'. Not. At. All.
On the face of it should be a quick fix, as per @andresdt's posts above, running a manual command after adding/moving controls as higher up on this page.

In reality it's probably more complex and there must be competing priorities with limited resources i guess...

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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by tetsuo29 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:24 pm

stam wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:15 pm

On the face of it should be a quick fix, as per @andresdt's posts above, running a manual command after adding/moving controls as higher up on this page.

In reality it's probably more complex and there must be competing priorities with limited resources i guess...
I should have been more explicit. The last comment over at the Quality Control Center is stating that the bug is not reproducible and asking me for a recipe for reproducing the bug or a screen recording. This is the case even though in my initial filing of the bug report, I provided several links to forum discussions where people are describing this bug, and Brian Milby added comments to my bug report. So, I naively thought that since he had confirmed that this is a bug over here that he might follow up over there. Now, I do know that he's more of a volunteer than an employee and I don't meant to be pointing fingers at him. His weren't the last comments on my bug report but, c'mon. Anyone at LC trying to claim that they don't know this is a bug or that they can't manage to reproduce it just isn't looking or trying that hard at this point. It's a bug. It's been there for years. It's verified. They're not acknowledging it or fixing it. It's ridiculous.

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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by stam » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:28 pm

Can you link your bug report?

Perhaps if more people chime in, it may help prioritise this

Stam

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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by tetsuo29 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:38 pm

stam wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:28 pm
Can you link your bug report?

Perhaps if more people chime in, it may help prioritise this

Stam
Of course. I had provided it previously but, I'll save you the trouble of looking back through all the previous comments:
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23122

stam
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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by stam » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:48 pm

tetsuo29 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:38 pm
Of course. I had provided it previously but, I'll save you the trouble of looking back through all the previous comments:
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23122
Thanks - much appreciated ;)

I left a further comment (although i've just seen i've misspelled Brian's name -- SORRY!) on this and if others are troubled by this please add yourselves as well...

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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by FourthWorld » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:13 pm

tetsuo29 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:11 pm
Decided to check on the status of the bug report I filed back in March. It's still listed as "PENDING_AWAITING_FOLLOW_UP". Like, OMG, they do not, as they claim, 'take quality seriously'. Not. At. All.
Unsurprisingly, the status "Pending Awaiting Follow-Up" suggests that the fix is pending awaiting follow-up.

When we see that status, we can review what's requested and provide it. Doing so pings the team to take a fresh look at the new material to see if they can now reproduce it.

Given the number of function points in LC, it's understandable that the communications mechanisms offered in the bug DB are the ones they use. I'm sure they would love to have the time to wade through all outstanding reports each week just to see what may or may not have been provided, but as a practical matter that's of course not a reasonable expectation.

In this case, what was requested was a sample stack. What was provided instead was a written recipe. It was a good recipe, and ultimately the LC team member assigned to the task agreed that it was sufficient to allow him to reproduce the reported issue. But it wasn't the example stack the team member was expecting to take action.

Now we can see that the report is back to an active status, and will be resolved soon.

The life lesson here may be as useful in personal relationships as with professional ones:

- Assume good intentions.

- Take note of what's requested when something you're advocating for isn't understood.

- If you provide something other than what's requested, a little patience along with a kind tone when reminding them that their request was satisfied though by different means than expected, goes a long way toward getting what you want.

Being quick to assume idiocy, laziness, duplicity, or any other bad-faith engagement will not only make life unnecessarily less pleasant, it can often widen the gap between what you have and what you want.
Richard Gaskin
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tetsuo29
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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by tetsuo29 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:18 pm

FourthWorld wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:13 pm
Now we can see that the report is back to an active status, and will be resolved soon.

The life lesson here may be as useful in personal relationships as with professional ones:

- Assume good intentions.

- Take note of what's requested when something you're advocating for isn't understood.

- If you provide something other than what's requested, a little patience along with a kind tone when reminding them that their request was satisfied though by different means than expected, goes a long way toward getting what you want.

Being quick to assume idiocy, laziness, duplicity, or any other bad-faith engagement will not only make life unnecessarily less pleasant, it can often widen the gap between what you have and what you want.
Those are all fair points and definitely good advice in general. However, it wasn't just the status over at the QCC, it was also the (and my bad for not stating this in my earlier post) comments from Panos and the fact that Brian had commented over there before he verified the bug over here but, then he never went back there to report that he had verified the bug. It annoyed me. Panos' lack of any further investigation. There's links in my initial posting of the bug report to several conversations here where users are reporting experiencing the bug. Brian not following up over there after he knew the bug is real and reproducible.

You're right that I should try and remain nicer about this. It's hard sometimes. Especially when a bug has existed for 14+ years and I'm not the only one who has discussed it here in these forums. And also when I'm apparently the first one to report it over at the QCC. It's difficult not to start to get a little testy, especially when it's so easily reproducible and LC employees and/or volunteers are saying they can't figure out how to make the bug happen.

And since we're on this subject, I have to say that I'm kind of shocked at some users here that just accept a bug like this in this in a major feature of LC. Why have some of you just come to accept the GM not working as advertised? Why are some of you willing to code around it instead of asking for it to be fixed? It doesn't make sense to me.

And... and, if anyone from LC is reading this. You have to know that a major feature of the product being this broken for this long has to have lost you potential users and therefore sales. Your website says you take quality very seriously but, if that's really true, how has the Geometry Manager bug gone unnoticed and unfixed for this long?

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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by FourthWorld » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:12 am

Panos already apologized for the delay. I'm not sure what more could be expected.
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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by Klaus » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:25 am

FourthWorld wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:12 am
I'm not sure what more could be expected.
Some snacks and beverages? :D

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Re: Why is the geometry manager still borked in 2021?!

Post by jacque » Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:01 pm

Problems may have been ignored by users because fewer people actually use the GM. I've even seen suggestions here and elsewhere that new users should avoid it. That's probably not fair, but even when it works correctly (which it often does) any changes to layout require you to redo the settings in the GM. That's the primary reason I don't use it.

Those who do use it and understand its limitations generally praise it. Brian knows it very well. I heard the team uses it for IDE stacks.
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
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