LiveCode Forums.

Hi everyone,
Like almost all Italian girls, I believe in love and promises, especially when they say “forever.”
I haven't been on the site for quite some time, working on my own little farm. Livecode and olive trees, wonderful, isn't it?
Then I said to myself, let me take a look at the site. I was a little shocked, as Create has taken over from the initial plans. As I thought, Create has swallowed LiveCode. Apart from all the arguments that can be made, I am interested in two things.
a) Will LiveCode SERVER remain as it is? (Or will it be eliminated or compulsorily linked to some devilry?)
b) Will Live Code Indy lifetime licenses really be lifetime? (i.e., will they be converted to Create Lifetime) or will you betray your customers' trust?
That's it, just that. Tomorrow I'll wake up early (and I've set my LiveCode alarm)!
Thanks to anyone who replies.
Lorena

No: forever is not forever.

LiveCode claimed they were releasing their Open Source version 'forever'.

The LiveCode 'road map' during the fund raisers promised lots of things that never happened.

Cara Lorena,

Richmond's right! :-/

However in summer 2024, LC (Kevin Miller & Heather Laine) had contacted every "forever license" holder
personally to discuss the future of that license. Obviously you somehow missed it...

Best
Klaus

Richmond may be right, but

you have no idea how much he wishes he was wrong.

richmond62 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 30, 2026 5:33 pm

Richmond may be right, but

you have no idea how much he wishes he was wrong.

Believe me, I have!

A long time ago, about 24 years ago, I discovered RunRev, and also developed an online friendship with Heather Laine.

At that time I was working at the University of St. Andrews, and also on a private contract to develop an educational CD to teach basic music concepts and genres.

RunRev (as they then were) were extremely generous in terms of time and help.

That continued through my move (back) to Bulgaria and my development of programs for ESL purposes.

Somewhere with the first fund-raiser that relationship went sour: how much of this was me, and how much of this was the company, I really wouldn't want to hazard a guess: but I'd believe that that 'sourness' was not just between me and LC, but a fairly universal loss of faith.

Call it a loss of innocence if you will.

And as we all know (unless we have not grown up) loss of innocence is the worst part of growing up.

Paint it whichever way you will, Livecode's and their installed base went sour as a direct consequence of the betrayal (whether actual or merely percieved) that happened with the fundraisers.

IFF Livecode can, somehow rebuild that trust (and I doubt they will manage that) they may manage to keep their heads above water rather that go the way of all the other companies that have betrayed their initial way of doing things for the sake of chasing short-term goals.

The lack of both listening, and adequately demonstrating they are listening is a small, but vital part, of their signal failing.

The only solace I can get from all this is that RunRev must have bigger fish to fry than to buddy up, like in the old days, with our cozy little group. If that is so, then at least they must be financially healthy, and I am happy for that.

But I am a particularly bad example within that little group, since I am perfectly content with years-old versions of the program, and always will be. I can effectively ignore the shift to be.

I read here about those who are being forced to switch platforms, either from cost considerations or other sundry types of frustration. Has anyone ever heard from anyone who is zooming along the path to the upcoming paradigm shift, excited and full of anticipation? Where are professionals like Jacque and Richard on that path?

I know what Richmond thinks. Jacque and Richard?

Craig

Thank you guys for sharing your experiences.
I remember that a long-time user, I think Italian like me, Mariasole, fought a battle here a few years ago for LC in schools. She was promised that it would happen (even by the Big Boss himself), but nothing ever came of it.
I've been trying to understand Create over the last few days, and honestly, it would have been better to keep LiveCode as it is and integrate it with an AI assistant. I happily write LiveCode code while consulting various AIs, even if they don't help me much (except for the usual stuff, certainly not for creativity).
The fact is that it's not clear what will happen to Live Code Server; I still don't understand.
As for the Indy lifetime license, I spoke with a lawyer I know, and he told me that those who have this license are entitled to continue with the “new” product directly descended from LiveCode with the same privileges. So I would say that those who have an Indy lifetime license can rest assured. But I want an answer from the company....
This kind of behavior towards customers condemns a company to irrelevance. None of my programmer friends know LiveCode, and when they see the website, they tell me it's just a tool for creating contraptions... and I get very angry, but I am aware that the revolutionary and noble language Xtalk has been distorted from its original philosophy...

PS: I noticed that the new website doesn't link to this forum, but to this one instead: https://discourse.livecode.com/. I think they want to make a clean break with the past (thousands of visits) and move towards the future (dozens of visits). I don't know, maybe I'm just seeing the glass as half empty...

dunbarx wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 30, 2026 8:00 pm

I know what Richmond thinks. Jacque and Richard?

I have mixed feelings.

I've known the LC team since the beginning, and I even worked in tech support for a time, way back when. I remember telling Kevin that if the company ever folded, it wouldn't just end my career, it would affect all my clients too. He knew that very well, and swore that he would never, ever let the company die. He's kept that promise for years, through good times and bad. I can honestly say I love Kevin and Mark Waddingham; I joked once that I'd like to adopt Mark.

So I want the best for them and the company. The current focus on enterprise businesses could be the boost they need. It's been a long haul for LC.

However. I'm getting old and I'm not as quick as I used to be. Work dried up about a year ago and I found myself unintentionally retired. I haven't booted up my Mac in 6 months, and have transitioned to the Android ecosystem, which I find far more innovative and interesting than anything Apple has done recently. I see that Create can now build Android apps, which is great, but I haven't tried it lately, though I looked at Create when it was first introduced and it was largely unuseable back then. It's something I need to revisit someday.

For those who don't know, I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota not far from where both killings took place. I am glued to local news all day. I marched in the big protests and will continue to do so. I'm safe enough, being white and old, without an accent. But many years ago I lived one block from where Renee Good was killed, and until recently we used to eat at an Indian restaurant down the street from where Alex Pretti was murdered. We don't go there now. It's a hot zone.

So basically, I don't know what I will do. The local aura of pervasive doom is distracting. We'll see what happens if it ever clears up. If it doesn't, then it's moot what I do next.

Well, Jacque, I have no mixed feelings; as you have been 'there' in some sort of capacity right from the day in Carbondale, Illinois (1993) when I hooked up a Mac to a dial-up modem and cracked open HyperCard until "yesterday", I am sad to see you 'cut adrift' from the xTalk world, and can only offer you many, many thanks for all your help and advice over the last 32 years, and my best wishes for your next adventure.

Obviously 'forever' is not forever, but if only 'forever' could be for quite a bit longer . . .

And, as to the situation in the USA with that awful man: I can only hope and pray that America will wake up sooner rather than later and work out what it has lost because of that man and that madness, and will be able to retrench. When we lived in the USA I had nothing but admiration for your country, and seeing what is happening there now makes me extremely sad.

Yes, our thoughts are with Jacque in these deeply troubling times. Stay safe…