Publishing desktop apps

[jmk_phd]

I am just about to go public with my latest cross-platform (Win/Mac) LC desktop app, so I can at least share my own experience with others who are new to publishing.

Unlike iOS apps, Apple does allow developers to distribute macOS apps outside the Apple store. For me, this decision was a no-brainer: My aim is to distribute this to qualified grad students on a shoestring budget for less than 10% the cost of rival commercial test distributors. So Apple’s 30% cut for all sales was a non-starter — even apart from the fact that apps intended for the Apple store must pass through more stringent hoops to qualify.

Of course, in order to distribute an app independently, there are other issues that one must address:

(1) One needs a website to make the app available for download. (In my case this simply involved creating a new subdomain using the webhosting account that I’ve already had for 20 years.)

(2) As mentioned elsewhere, it is essential that one code-sign, notarize, and staple the Mac app (preferably in a .dmg) to prevent macOS from refusing to download or open the installer. This does require a $99/yr enrollment as an Apple developer.

(3) Unless one’s app is being distributed free of charge, it is necessary to employ a third-party vendor to process payments. In this regard, I strongly recommend using a vendor who — unlike something like PayPal — will serve as “merchant of record” and will handle deducting and forwarding any sales tax to the purchaser’s state or municipality. Trying to do this oneself is hugely difficult, and not doing so could have serious legal consequences.

In my case, I’m using the vendor Paddle.com. Although I've had to brush up on my javascript skills and learn some new PHP in order to implement generating a unique license code for each purchase, it was worth the effort. (Paddle currently charges only 3-4% for processing.)

(4) Frankly, I’m not sure how much selling through Apple store improves one’s visibility. However, when marketing an app oneself, it is really important to brush up on SEO optimization to improve the chances that your distribution website will rank high in search engines.

Finally, if you intend to distribute a cross-platform app, these Apple store issues are irrelevant. Purchasing a signing certificate to bypass Windows Defender does cost about as much as an Apple Developer subscription and is needed. But once you have a distribution website, there’s no additional cost to making an installer available for download on your website for both platforms.

jeff k

[dunbarx]

Jeff.

All good stuff. Very informative.

I have developed many desktop apps for "distribution" to others. These include programs for my business, in both Mac and Windows standalones, but others are programs for friends, some of which are used as tools for commerce. I have never entered the realm of mobile, though I wish I had.

Craig

[richmond62]

If one issues one's Mac standalone as a zip file there is no need for notarising, stapling or code-signing whatsoever.

[stam]

Unless one’s app is being distributed free of charge, it is necessary to employ a third-party vendor to process payments. In this regard, I strongly recommend using a vendor who — unlike something like PayPal — will serve as “merchant of record” and will handle deducting and forwarding any sales tax to the purchaser’s state or municipality. Trying to do this oneself is hugely difficult, and not doing so could have serious legal consequences.

In my case, I’m using the vendor Paddle.com. Although I've had to brush up on my javascript skills and learn some new PHP in order to implement generating a unique license code for each purchase, it was worth the effort. (Paddle currently charges only 3-4% for processing.)

Thanks for posting this Jeff, that's really interesting. I may ask you for advice on Paddle in the future if you don't mind...

Is there any difference between online payment processing vendors? Is Stripe a better choice than PayPal for example? And just to confirm - Paddle manages sales taxes for you?

Re: Win code signing certificate - thanks to vendors like K software, the cost can be brought down to Apple dev cost level, but with almost all other vendors the cost is x2-3 as much - not to mention that users still get a warning if you don't have 'reputation'. Of course you can buy an

Can i also ask - how does the 30% cut to apple compare with
a) hosting a website (I realise you already have one, but others may not),
b) hosting storage for downloadable software, and managing down
c) doing SEO,
d) advertising, and most importantly
e) processing payments - i'm unclear for example if Apple would manage taxes in the same way as you suggest Paddle does?

All things being equal and supposing you're not a one-man band that designed professional websites, does SEO, advertising, site maintenance etc - is there really a big difference? The attraction of the Apple store is that a lot of this may already be done for you and for a 'fixed fee' - but is that dramatically higher than costs would be otherwise?

S.

[richmond62]

Can i also ask - how does the 30% cut to apple compare with
a) hosting a website (I realise you already have one, but others may not),
b) hosting storage for downloadable software

a) https://www.owlstown.com/

b) DropBox

[stam]

If one issues one's Mac standalone as a zip file there is no need for notarising, stapling or code-signing whatsoever.

It's a security precaution.

You can get away with it if you have a limited number of people downloading it who know how to bypass the GateKeeper restrictions on unsigned apps and are willing to take the risk. If you don't, they won't be able to run it.

But more importantly, you're selling an app, the expectation is that this will be signed and notarised. CodeSigning and notarising it helps prevent malicious alteration of the zip file (or dmg).

You cannot in good faith sell an app which is a clear security risk... and I would not purchase any such software...

S.

[stam]

Can i also ask - how does the 30% cut to apple compare with
a) hosting a website (I realise you already have one, but others may not),
b) hosting storage for downloadable software

a) https://www.owlstown.com/

b) DropBox

you're going to sell your app out of a dropbox account? Yep - that sounds legit... an unsigned app you can pay for and download off dropbox
Oh, and what's to prevent others for using the link and 10,000 potential customers downloading it for free?

Jeff was specifically talking about paid software. Giving away stuff for free is a different matter - you could just host on GitHub for example.

S.

[richmond62]

I don't sell my app: it is donation ware:

here we are: go and get it: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2vgc1ei088hd ... QQjYa?dl=0

[FourthWorld]

Can i also ask - how does the 30% cut to apple compare with
a) hosting a website (I realise you already have one, but others may not),
b) hosting storage for downloadable software, and managing down
c) doing SEO,
d) advertising, and most importantly
e) processing payments - i'm unclear for example if Apple would manage taxes in the same way as you suggest Paddle does?

What successful software business doesn't already build those things into their plans?

A record in a uniform collection of millions in an app store database isn't a business.

For hobbyists it is indeed a great lowering of the bar, making distribution accessible where it would otherwise be impractical for such low download counts.

But any healthy business invests as much in marketing as in development. A web presence is an absolute must, and only the beginning. An ongoing content strategy smartly syndicated across relevant social media is usually central in a marketing plan, along with guest blogging and other publishing opportunities, conferences and other events, and more.

Those who get downloads work for them. They don't expect ROI from passively tossing an app into the app store ocean and hoping people stumble across their drop. They actively cultivate that traffic and guide it to the download store.

In the 2st century payment processors are cheap and plentiful.

SEO as a distinct inorganic activity is overrated. Google has had one rule since the beginning, and each update only reinforces it: add value to the web and you'll score high. Conversely, play clever spam games and you won't. Content strategy focused on adding value to your segment has always been useful, and will remain so.

And having a record in a database of millions isn't exactly SEO anyway.

The good news is that US Senator Warren and her colleagues rattled their sabres just enough that Apple halved their fees for most devs. Only the biggest still give away 30% of their revenue for that database record. The rest of us now only pay 15%. (And it turns out 15% is still enormously profitable for them.)

And the sabre rattling is only getting started. We can expect a de-Borking of US trade regs to further benefit consumers and market diversity in the years ahead.

Cory Doctorow's latest examines one corner of this in California, and includes what may be the most succinct discussion of antitrust erosion (and paths to restoration) I've seen yet:

https://pluralistic.net/2022/09/15/prim ... er-welfare

[richmond62]

any healthy business invests as much in marketing as in development

That's a point, and I wonder if . . .

[richmond62]

an app which is a clear security risk

That's extremely presumptuous.

Surely, if one has adequate anti-virus stuff installed on one's machine anything coming in should be
scanned, and, if necessary, flagged as potentially dangerous.

Funny how nobody gives a tuppenny toss about this sort of thing over on the Linux side of things.

Are you sure that stapling, nailing, stitching-up and so on is not, just possibly, a way for the commercial OS venders
to increase their revenue stream and/or poke their noses into other people's business?

[jmk_phd]

Can i also ask - how does the 30% cut to apple compare with
a) hosting a website (I realise you already have one, but others may not),
b) hosting storage for downloadable software, and managing down
c) doing SEO,
d) advertising, and most importantly
e) processing payments - i'm unclear for example if Apple would manage taxes in the same way as you suggest Paddle does?

All things being equal and supposing you're not a one-man band that designed professional websites, does SEO, advertising, site maintenance etc - is there really a big difference? The attraction of the Apple store is that a lot of this may already be done for you and for a 'fixed fee' - but is that dramatically higher than costs would be otherwise?

All terrific questions! The sticker-shock of a 30% cut for the Apple store -- or even 15% if Richard is correct that small developers like myself are now charged at a lower tier -- seems like a lot until development & distribution costs are taken into account.

I did a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation for my case: Annual cost to renew a domain name + webhost account + Apple developer ID = $236. If I can sell 25 copies of my app ($37.50 US x 25 = $937.50) and Paddle charges me $3.50 per transaction (total $87.50), I will net $850.00. But figuring in the overhead costs, this drops to $614. If I were to pay only for the Apple Developer ID and let the Apple store handle everything else for a 30% commission, my net would be only slightly less ($587) and actually better at 15% ($712).

Of course, these calculations are a bit misleading in my case because I'd still want to have my own website and distribute a Windows version of my apps. But for a new low-volume Mac-only developer the Apple store alternative really doesn't look all that predatory.

Your last point is an important one as well: If I'd had to hire someone to handle the web design, create the graphics, write a server-side PHP script to generate license keys, tweak the SEO, and do the necessary marketing, my project never could have gotten off the ground.

As regards the advantage of employing a "merchant of record" for handling payment processing and taxes, Paddle does have a balanced article on this issue: https://www.paddle.com/resources/mercha ... e-for-cfos

jeff k

[stam]

As regards the advantage of employing a "merchant of record" for handling payment processing and taxes, Paddle does have a balanced article on this issue: https://www.paddle.com/resources/mercha ... e-for-cfos

jeff k

Thanks Jeff, very useful link and discussion… Paddle seems like a very sensible option if selling outside the appstores - anyone know If same fees apply to windows store?

S.

[jmk_phd]

Thanks Jeff, very useful link and discussion… Paddle seems like a very sensible option if selling outside the appstores - anyone know If same fees apply to windows store?

Just out of curiosity, I did a quick search for info on publishing traditional desktop apps through the Microsoft Store. As far as I can tell, there's a one-time setup fee to open a store account ($19 USD Individual / $99 Corporate), after which Microsoft charges 3% of the retail price per sale as a service fee and handles collecting and submitting any tax. In their example, for a $500 item with a 10% tax, the customer is charged $550, Microsoft takes $15, sends $485 to the developer, and submits $50 to the taxing body.

You can dig through the details in their documentation: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windo ... e/overview

BTW, as regards the issue of overhead that you'd raised, I failed to mention before that Paddle includes in its pricing the option to have it host one's downloadable app in the Paddle store. And it doesn't matter whether the download is a .msi or .dmg, so no need to deal with both an Apple store and Microsoft store. Consequently, one really doesn't even need one's own website to distribute an app.

In fairness, other "merchants of record" offer that service as well, although the first one I looked into a few years ago -- Fastspring -- since changed its pricing structure way beyond what a small developer can afford.

jeff k

[richmond62]

As mentioned elsewhere, it is essential that one code-sign, notarize, and staple the Mac app

I do not agree with this at all.

My apps are stored on my DropBox account, and are not code-signed, notarised, stapled, died purple, or anything else that Apple 'demands': they can be freely downloaded as ZIP files onto Macs, unzipped and run.