Livecode is a C++ or programming language
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Livecode is a C++ or programming language
How to explain to my customers. whether livecode is C++ or a new programming language like ruby, php. because my customers see github livecode. 70% of the livecode is written in c ++. my customers compare with qt. because qt is not a programming language.
thanks for all who helped
thanks for all who helped
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Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
What sort of client frequents GitHub yet doesn't understand what a scripting engine is?
Richard Gaskin
LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems
LiveCode Group on Facebook
LiveCode Group on LinkedIn
LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems
LiveCode Group on Facebook
LiveCode Group on LinkedIn
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Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
Well, frankly, Github leaves me mystified.C++ or a new programming language
But I am well aware that LiveCode is neither C++ nor a new programming language.
1. C++ is a programming language: and as LiveCode is NOT C++ how can it be C++?
(a spot of basic logic might not be a bad idea.)
2. LiveCode is certainly NOT new: I know because I have been using it for 20 years.
2.1. LiveCode has developed out of MetaCard (proximally) and HyperCard (at a further remove),
and HyperCard is very nearly 40 years old.
3. LiveCode contains a programming language (which, just to keep us on our toes, keeps changing its name).
Sometimes, for some odd reason, I think people ask these sorts of questions without
having a think first.
Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
it would be best for one to know : "why is a client asking you some questions about your working tool ?
if they do coding, they probably wont need to ask much about it...
if they are not into coding : then what do they really wonder about, speed perf ? reliabilty..else ?
*understanding why they ask something - helps you give them the right and true answer...
not knowing why or what it is that they want to be assured of...is like playing darts with your eyes closed, fewer chances to give it in the middle !
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmi ... enerations
if they do coding, they probably wont need to ask much about it...
if they are not into coding : then what do they really wonder about, speed perf ? reliabilty..else ?
*understanding why they ask something - helps you give them the right and true answer...
not knowing why or what it is that they want to be assured of...is like playing darts with your eyes closed, fewer chances to give it in the middle !
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmi ... enerations
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Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
This is interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmi ... enerations
mainly because I cannot work out where LiveCode should be:
1. 4GL languages tend to be specialized toward very specific programming domains.
2. A fifth-generation programming language (5GL) is any programming language based on problem-solving
using constraints given to the program, rather than using an algorithm written by a programmer.
For years I have been telling people that LiveCode is a fifth-generation programming language: and, quite obviously,
if that Wikipedia article is anything to go on, I was speaking out of my bottom:
1. "using an algorithm written by a programmer": well, I think we'd all be hard put to get anything really worthwhile out
of LiveCode without the "odd" algorithm here and there.
2. "the user only needs to worry about what problems need to be solved and what conditions need to be met, without worrying about how to implement a routine or algorithm to solve them" . . . I wonder how one can cook up an algorithm in the first place
if one doesn't know what it is going to do?
Admittedly, I cannot work out what 456,789 cubed is without an awful lot of work with a pencil, but before I implement
an algorithm to find out what 456,789 cubed is, I might just, possibly, try it out with an result I know (err . . . say . . . 3 cubed).
3. I cannot see how LiveCode is specialized towards "very specific programming domains."
In fact one only has to "flap one's ears" on these forums to work out LiveCode can be used for almost anything.
The truth of the matter is, that like the bizarre, linear idea that humans are at the top of a "great chain of being", instead of one branch of a cladistic evolutionary process, describing programming languages as generations 1,2,3,4 & 5 is hugely over-simplistic and rather misleading.
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/8/eaay5483
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmi ... enerations
mainly because I cannot work out where LiveCode should be:
1. 4GL languages tend to be specialized toward very specific programming domains.
2. A fifth-generation programming language (5GL) is any programming language based on problem-solving
using constraints given to the program, rather than using an algorithm written by a programmer.
For years I have been telling people that LiveCode is a fifth-generation programming language: and, quite obviously,
if that Wikipedia article is anything to go on, I was speaking out of my bottom:
1. "using an algorithm written by a programmer": well, I think we'd all be hard put to get anything really worthwhile out
of LiveCode without the "odd" algorithm here and there.
2. "the user only needs to worry about what problems need to be solved and what conditions need to be met, without worrying about how to implement a routine or algorithm to solve them" . . . I wonder how one can cook up an algorithm in the first place
if one doesn't know what it is going to do?
Admittedly, I cannot work out what 456,789 cubed is without an awful lot of work with a pencil, but before I implement
an algorithm to find out what 456,789 cubed is, I might just, possibly, try it out with an result I know (err . . . say . . . 3 cubed).
3. I cannot see how LiveCode is specialized towards "very specific programming domains."
In fact one only has to "flap one's ears" on these forums to work out LiveCode can be used for almost anything.
The truth of the matter is, that like the bizarre, linear idea that humans are at the top of a "great chain of being", instead of one branch of a cladistic evolutionary process, describing programming languages as generations 1,2,3,4 & 5 is hugely over-simplistic and rather misleading.
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/8/eaay5483
Last edited by richmond62 on Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
While LiveCode Script isn't C++, the LiveCode script engine it runs on IS written in C++.
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Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
True, but not really relevant when 'prawns' ask "whether livecode is C++."While LiveCode Script isn't C++, the LiveCode script engine it runs on IS written in C++.
As far as I recall, C++ was probably written in machine code . . .
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Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
Hmm, I thought it was precisely relevant to "How to explain to" (someone who has no clue) "whether livecode is C++" and why GitHub would list it as C++.richmond62 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:27 pmTrue, but not really relevant when 'prawns' ask "whether livecode is C++."While LiveCode Script isn't C++, the LiveCode script engine it runs on IS written in C++.
As far as I recall, C++ was probably written in machine code . . .
Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
I'd tend to doubt thatrichmond62 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:27 pmAs far as I recall, C++ was probably written in machine code . . .
C++ was an improvement (or intended to be one) of C.
C was an improvement (or intended to be one) of B
...and so on , and so forth.
B, C, and C++ can write themselves (or maybe I should say, can write the compiler that compiles itself?). They can also write their own OS, as you can deal with low level hardware and write boot routines.
I'd tend to agree with Paul on this one, though I might phrase it differently, and as Richard pointed out, if they don't understand what a scripting engine is, you'd probably wind up at least having to give a more full explanation of it.
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Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
If GitHub does that it gives an entirely false impression of what LiveCode is,why GitHub would list it as C++
whether or not the under-pinnings of LiveCode are written in C++.
And telling questioners "LiveCode is C++" is probably not much more helpful than saying "French is Latin."
If LiveCode were C++, a child, having learnt how to do things in LiveCode would be able to do exactly the same things in C++
without further instruction, and the other way round: but, in both cases, this is just not true.
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Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
Well you would, as proximally it is untrue.I'd tend to doubt that
But, just as tables and chairs are made from wood, and wood is made from molecules,
and molecules are composed of atoms, . . . leptons, hadrons,
muons, gluons . . . strings . . . so C++ is written in machine code.
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Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
I'm not haggling over semantics. If you look at the source code for LiveCode engine, it's mostly C++, I'm sure any of the team from the mothership would confirm this. GitHub uses some sort of algorithm to try to determine a language some code is written in. There isn't enough LiveCode Script (and it would have to be a script-only "stack") or LiveCode Builder code on GitHub for those to even register and make it into their language list file (which I've personally looked into to updating via pull request). If more people would share their LC code on GitHub maybe that will eventually change.richmond62 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:52 pmIf GitHub does that it gives an entirely false impression of what LiveCode is,why GitHub would list it as C++
whether or not the under-pinnings of LiveCode are written in C++.
And telling questioners "LiveCode is C++" is probably not much more helpful than saying "French is Latin."
If LiveCode were C++, a child, having learnt how to do things in LiveCode would be able to do exactly the same things in C++
without further instruction, and the other way round: but, in both cases, this is just not true.
Here's a screenshot of how GitHub lists the languages used in my own, mostly LiveCode Builder, repos as C, C++,AppleScript, etc.:
Last edited by PaulDaMacMan on Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
No, it isn't, it compiles to machine code, it is *not* written in it heh, it is (at this time) written in itself, literally.richmond62 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:54 pmBut, just as tables and chairs are made from wood, and wood is made from molecules,
and molecules are composed of atoms, . . . leptons, hadrons,
muons, gluons . . . strings . . . so C++ is written in machine code.
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Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
I recall that was one of the goals for LC IDE/LiveCode Builder (not sure if it still is), to have it's source be written in itself.
Re: Livecode is a C++ or programming language
Well, that certainly isn't an impossibility, but it would be a tougher way to go about it. Almost any language can write a compiler, and I don't see writing source code files to be particularly difficult either (probably the easiest part of the whole process actually), putting it together might be a bit of a challenge though.