Extension of systemVersion

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mwieder
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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by mwieder » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:40 pm

Linux is reasonably abstracted from the hardware layer. Windows somewhat less so. At a level very close to the metal I can envision a script wanting to take advantage of, say, a particular feature of a graphics card, and so have a need to query the hardware characteristics. But I don't see this as necessarily a function of "the machine'.

For Windows (and maybe linux as well) the script might want to do different things if it's running on a tablet or Surface or something else where it might take advantage of certain hardware features. On linux the output of the lshw command will give you much more than you could ever want in terms of hardware details. And FWIW the contents of /proc/version will at least tell me that I'm built on an Ubuntu 8.04 base. I don't know if there's a similar feature in Windows.

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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by bogs » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:15 pm

And just to show I kept the promise I made to test out lscpu, it worked on every distro supported by Lc (Ubuntu, Mint, Redhat/Fedora, Suse/Open Suse) as well as a goodly number of other distros that I had readily available :D

*Edit - I realize that the last part of the above really wasn't very descriptive. Currently the mix on this box looks like this :
lscpuTests.png
Lscpu Tested ...
Mind you though, I only tested it on the 'nix'en.
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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by mwieder » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:29 am

Wow... that's quite a matrix you've got.
Your tails is somewhat out of date... the latest version from July is 3.15.

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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by bogs » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:07 am

mwieder wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:29 am
Wow... that's quite a matrix you've got.
Well, this is actually a subset of the complete and diverse grouping, I don't have every other OS to test on, but I have (I feel) a reasonable ability to recreate almost any test bed, short of a current mac.

The tails I only refresh when I am going to be using my laptop extensively, as it can't be installed (easily) I just download the new image when I'll be out tripping around :D
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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by richmond62 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:36 am

Well, bogs, you certainly put the LiveCode people to shame
as they state they test their Linux versions
on Ubuntu versions from 2014 and 2016.

Actually, if "you lot at LiveCode" are reading this . . .

. . . this is a giant kick in the bum re Linux testing.

bogs
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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by bogs » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:56 am

Well, I don't really think so, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is for me, this is a hobby.

The way I see it, Lc Ltd's main thing is to put out an IDE that works on the systems they say it will work on. Virtualization is great and all that, but it isn't real hardware by any stretch. They have (at least) 2 real world machines that I will never be in any rush to go buy, and I don't have the room for them in any case.

On the linux side, I posted something about this in another thread. 'nix is basically nix, the distros and combos shouldn't matter if what your targeting is actually 'nix. I wouldn't target a specific desktop, or a specific window manager, but I also (most likely) couldn't recreate the environment we're working in either, or at least, not easily.

Having made the decisions that were made, it is a reasonable bet to test on what you support and leave testing on everything else to nuts like me :D
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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by richmond62 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:12 pm

Lc Ltd's main thing is to put out an IDE that works on the systems they say it will work on.
Possibly . . . but it if so this is a bit disingenuous:
-
Screenshot 2019-09-04 at 14.01.26.png
Screenshot 2019-09-04 at 14.01.26.png (14.54 KiB) Viewed 573 times
-
as "Linux" there is NOT 'Linux' with ALL that that entails,
it is a very small subset of the "Linux continent" (for want of a better phrase).

There are a series of MacOS releases, and there are a series of Windows releases, that are sequential.

Linux just does not work like that . . . and an awful lot of Linux distros depart
and 'depart' is not the right word) from what Ubuntu '14 and '16 have to offer.

Now, here comes chummy who is running some extremely obscure Linux distro on his/her
piece of hardware and sees "Linux" on the downloads page for LiveCode and, possibly
rather naively, thinks, "That'll work on my rig." And it doesn't.

Just to poke my finger in the wound that extra bit; several young people
I know have bought laptops with various Linux distros pre-installed
(and that is a whole other can of worms), tried to install LiveCode
for Linux and got nowhere: err, but "It says 'Linux' on the can."

----

And before the "usual suspects" jump and state, "There's Richmond being his usual offensive self."
They should consider the above.

To illustrate this: I fished out a CD-ROM (Dorling Kindersley World Explorer - bought in
Jeddah, KSA, in 1996) and read the 'guff' on the back, where it stated,
"Mac OS 8 and Windows 95." So, when I tried it on Windows 7 and MacOS 10.5 . . .
guess what: but then I'd only got myself to blame. Fished out a Pentium 2 and
shoved Windows 98 on it, and "Hey-Presto". But I was responsible BECAUSE it clearly
stated on the packet what systems the thing had been tested to work on.

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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by richmond62 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:18 pm

to test on what you support and leave testing on everything else to nuts like me
Welcome, welcome to the nutty fruitcake brigade. :)

HOWEVER . . . one cannot help wondering why a COMMERCIAL venture should expect its customers
to do testing . . .

AND . . . Open Source could be seen a an umbrella under which one can hide to avoid some responsibilities. 8)

bogs
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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by bogs » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:50 pm

I didn't see any one say they expected me to test that, a question was asked that I didn't have any answer too (and I should have had the answer before posing where to grab information from). The question itself was sound.

Dunno, I don't use many umbrellas myself heh. I'd actually like to see Lc do what Blender did, go from being relatively obscure to hugely successful.
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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by richmond62 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:35 pm

go from being relatively obscure to hugely successful
Indeed: but I don't think that has anything to do with which types of Linux LiveCode will run on.

I DO think that that has a lot to do with LiveCode's advertising strategy.

bogs
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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by bogs » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:44 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:35 pm
Indeed: but I don't think that has anything to do with which types of Linux LiveCode will run on.
Well, it does, in the sense that Blender runs on every version of nix that I have ever tested as well as it does on any other version or other platform that it runs on.
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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by richmond62 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:07 pm

I wonder how the Blender lot managed that?

It is really very impressive indeed.

bogs
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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by bogs » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:12 pm

Well, probably lots of hard work. When I first started using it, 'unstable' wouldn't have come close to describing the experience :P
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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by richmond62 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:24 pm

lots of hard work
Of course . . . maybe, just maybe "lots of hard work" is needed in 2 areas:

1. Getting "the thing" to work on the vast majority of Linux varieties.

2. Effective promotion.

Am I the only one who finds this:

https://livecode.com/develop-education/

slightly OT

(quite apart from the fact that the pretty girl with the blond hair is probably a wife and mother by now)

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Re: Extension of systemVersion

Post by FourthWorld » Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:24 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:12 pm
Lc Ltd's main thing is to put out an IDE that works on the systems they say it will work on.
There are a series of MacOS releases, and there are a series of Windows releases, that are sequential.

Linux just does not work like that . . . and an awful lot of Linux distros depart
and 'depart' is not the right word) from what Ubuntu '14 and '16 have to offer.
True, which is why the Release Notes include support for other popular distros, including the RHEL ecosystem in addition to Debian:
LinuxLiveCode supports the following Linux distributions, on 32-bit or 64-bit Intel/AMD or compatibleprocessors:
- Ubuntu 14.04 and 16.04
- Fedora 23 & 24Debian 7 (Wheezy) and 8 (Jessie) [server]
- CentOS 7 [server]

LiveCode may also run on Linux installations which meet the following requirements:
Required dependencies for core functionality:
glibc 2.13 or laterglib 2.0 or laterOptional requirements for GUI functionality:
GTK/GDK 2.24 or laterPango with Xft supportesd (optional, needed for audio output)mplayer (optional, needed for media player functionality)lcms (optional, required for color profile support in images)gksu (optional, required for privilege elevation support)
Note: If the optional requirements are not present then LiveCode will still run but the specified features will be disabled.
Note: The requirements for GUI functionality are also required by Firefox and Chrome, so if your Linux distribution runs one of those, it will run LiveCode.
This is similar to how Blender handles Linux builds, noting only "Linux" on their Downloads page with a caveat:
"All efforts to make Blender work on specific configurations are welcome, but we can only officially support those used by active developers."

With more than three-fourths of LC's audience using the Community Edition, we're well suited for collecting input and patches for those distros supported by the community.

If any of you are compiling and packaging LiveCode for Linux distros other than those supported by the company, my offer to secure hosting for those still stands, as does my offer to work as Community Liaison for any guidance you may need from the company to complete the build.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
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