iconGravity

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richmond62
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iconGravity

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:04 am

While iconGravity can be set for radio buttons and checkboxes either via the messageBox or
via a buttonScript it cannot be set via the Properties Palette.

If iconGravity could be set for radio buttons and checkboxes via the Properties Palette
that would be great.

bogs
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Re: iconGravity

Post by bogs » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:06 am

I'm curious, when you say 'iconGravity', what exactly are we talking about? Placement left/right/top/bottom? Cause if thats what you mean, you can set it from the text formatting panel.
Selection_002.png
Gravity...
Selection_001.png
Really heavy mannnn...
Image

richmond62
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Re: iconGravity

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:12 am

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32668#p180219
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Screenshot 2019-06-02 at 13.11.31.png
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Can you access ALL these possibilities?

bogs
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Re: iconGravity

Post by bogs » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:22 am

I dunno, I saw the post you linked when you posted it originally, but didn't understand it then either. From setting the alignment, I know the icon will move either left, top, or right no matter which button your using, and considering all the other properties that are not listed, I'd guess it is consistent with any other control and its properties.

i.e. some you access from the PI, some from code, just because.

I have to admit, I've never seen a button with it's icon in any other locations, but I'm not all that worldly either :P
Image

richmond62
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Re: iconGravity

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:53 am

Frankly, I don't really care as most of my button are fake ones: i.e. images mocked-up as buttons
to guarantee cross-platform font consistency.

However, having caught Klaus "on the hop" I thought I'd have a spot of fun at his expense rather
than the usual other way round. 8)

HOWEVER . . .

. . . IF one examines LiveCode's claims (rather than the reality, cough, cough), one might
reach the conclusion that a far larger number of things can be achieved without resort to
scripting than actually is the case . . .

. . . rather obviously, the first area where this claim can be made good is the ability to access
and modify all properties of all objects via the Properties Palette.

bogs
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Re: iconGravity

Post by bogs » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:14 pm

Well, that was brought up in another post, where I compared the Lc properties palette to the one in Delphi or Vb (I think, I'll have to go look for that thread :D ) and I *think* that the answer I got at the time was that there were just too many properties available, and that it would confuse people.

As far as resorting to script vs. setting a property to accomplish something, I think a great deal can be done just using the IDE as it is laid out. That isn't to say a great deal more couldn't be done, for sure, but it certainly isn't the worst I've ever seen.
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Re: iconGravity

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:16 pm

that it would confuse people
Super! I'll write that down on page 997 of my notebook labelled "Cheap Excuses."

I wonder if "some people" have ever worked with a focus group on all aspects
of an interface?

bogs
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Re: iconGravity

Post by bogs » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:46 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:16 pm
I wonder if "some people" have ever worked with a focus group on all aspects
of an interface?
Sure, quite a few have, but even then they don't always get it right (Clippy comes to mind) :P
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Re: iconGravity

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:44 pm

I don't know how long ago "the people we love" sat down with a focus group
and asked them a ton of questions about the Properties Palette and whether
any of them thought it was "overloaded with features", if, indeed it were ever done at all.

One of the reasons people are, generally, rather badly put together is that their
bodies evolved by an extremely odd route.

Robots could be rather better put together than people because they can be made "as they are"
rather than working to build a "man" on top of a basic design that was an arboreal shrew.

Now, at the risk (heaven forfend) of causing some offense, I do wonder if the current
LiveCode properties palette has evolved from the Runtime Revolution 1.0 one (with a few twiddly
add-ons) or been redesigned "from the ground up."

Certainly that "confuse people" seems like an ad hoc statement rather than
anything based on some good, old Empirical testing.
-
iconGravity.jpg
About 5 minutes before Moses gave an impromptu practical demonstration
of icongravity.

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Re: iconGravity

Post by livecodeali » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:11 pm

No need to get carried away, there was no conscious decision to omit the icongravity property from the inspector for these button types (as far as I know), it's a simple oversight.

Here is the PR adding it to the list of properties available for display in the inspector:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1880

Here is the PR adding it for the default and rectangle buttons:
https://github.com/livecode/livecode-id ... 2025/files

It just needs to be added in the same way as in the latter PR in the com.livecode.interface.classic.RadioButton.tsv and com.livecode.interface.classic.Checkbox.tsv files.

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Re: iconGravity

Post by jacque » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:52 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:44 pm
I don't know how long ago "the people we love" sat down with a focus group
and asked them a ton of questions about the Properties Palette and whether
any of them thought it was "overloaded with features", if, indeed it were ever done at all.
...

Now, at the risk (heaven forfend) of causing some offense, I do wonder if the current
LiveCode properties palette has evolved from the Runtime Revolution 1.0 one (with a few twiddly
add-ons) or been redesigned "from the ground up."

Certainly that "confuse people" seems like an ad hoc statement rather than
anything based on some good, old Empirical testing.
Fox News does this, where an anchor throws out an invented speculation which leads the listeners to accept the speculation as fact. It's a cheap shot.

LC has and does do focus groups following best practices for such things. The word "confusion" was not mentioned when I talked to Kevin about it, but they did learn a lot about how new users approached the IDE and where the stumbling blocks were. The goal was to find out what would make LC more accessible to users with various programming backgrounds, or none at all.

The LC properties pallette has undergone two major changes since version 1.0. The first was a rearrangement of some of the groupings and a switch from a tabbed interface to a dropdown button, required primarily because at that point there were too many new properties to fit into a tabbed system.

The second rewrite was far more comprehensive, requiring starting over from scratch. The pallette is now dynamic, and creates new groups of properties depending on the widgets you have installed. The tabs /dropdown dilemma was solved by placing icons at the top and adding arrows that allow scrolling when the window doesn't accommodate the entire row. The new palette was a tremendous amount of work that Ali managed to pull off wonderfully. He's also quite open to suggestion and he and I had a discussion about some features when the overhaul was in progress.

If you ever meet Ali you'll find that he's devoted to the work and demands a high level of performance from himself. So does everyone else on the team. Those who aren't like that don't stay.
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

richmond62
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Re: iconGravity

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:56 pm

No need to get carried away
But "carried away" is my middle name. 8)

Thanks for the reply, Ali.

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Re: iconGravity

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:02 pm

It's a cheap shot.
Possibly, and for that I apologise . . . But (and you are going to have to allow me my 'but')
as LiveCode don't exactly shout somethings loud enough for us over here in Bulgaria
(and other places as well); certainly not loud enough to know that:
LC has and does do focus groups following best practices for such things.
And this:
Those who aren't like that don't stay.
reveals more about LiveCode central than any other comment made in about the last 6 years or so.

Thanks, Jacque.
Last edited by richmond62 on Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: iconGravity

Post by jacque » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:15 pm

Richmond, if you and I didn't know each other so well I couldn't say some of those things. :) The solution of course is to come to a conference and schmooze with the team. You'll pick up all kinds of info and I guarantee you'll be impressed with their dedication and love for what they do. Maybe we'll see each other again in Edinburgh some day.
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

richmond62
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Re: iconGravity

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:28 pm

and schmooze
Unfortunately schmoozing costs money. 8)

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