Replace LiveCode Script with JavaScript, forever

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richmond62
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Re: Replace LiveCode Script with JavaScript, forever

Post by richmond62 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:44 pm

Has he found a compiler that will let you mix all those languages in source files, and produce a single executable?
Now there's the first really sensible question I seen for a long, long time.

I'll ask him.

Bernard
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Re: Replace LiveCode Script with JavaScript, forever

Post by Bernard » Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:14 pm

Whilst looking for something else in the forum I stumbled across this thread, and had to comment.
richmond62 wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:46 am
The LCS forums are littered with people struggling through problems that simply don't exist in good languages.
That's not true at all.

The LCS forums are full of messages asking for help because LiveCode, unlike a lot of other languages,
can be learnt largely by oneself (no textbooks, no nothing), but a little help does tend to accelerate things.
Elsewhere I have been in discussions with someone who has spent the past two years learning (full-time) to be a web developer. After all that time he still stumbles over basic problems in Javascript and CSS (I see him report on the HOURS he has spent trying to find out where he's going wrong). In 20 years I've never seen someone use LC for 6 months and struggle over the basics.

mrcoollion
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Re: Replace LiveCode Script with JavaScript, forever

Post by mrcoollion » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:25 am

I explicitly choose LC because of ease of learning and the ability to write complex applications for Windows, Mac, Android and Linux, and even Raspberry PI as well as the cost-friendly nature of the licenses.
And even though the language basics of LC are easy to learn there is no development language that makes you a star programmer overnight. Even with LC you need to learn what is possible and how which takes time and perseverance in any language.

My 10 cents.

Regards,

Paul

FourthWorld
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Re: Replace LiveCode Script with JavaScript, forever

Post by FourthWorld » Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:41 pm

mrcoollion wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:25 am
Even with LC you need to learn what is possible and how which takes time and perseverance in any language.
I have a friend who wants to learn to become good at playing basketball.

He's read a couple books on it, but he doesn't practice.

He's certain there should be a book that will explain how to do it well, that if it's written well enough he could read it and then step out onto the court and play like a pro, no practice needed.

And so he blames the documentation.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

Bernard
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Re: Replace LiveCode Script with JavaScript, forever

Post by Bernard » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:11 am

Bernard wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:14 pm
Elsewhere I have been in discussions with someone who has spent the past two years learning (full-time) to be a web developer. After all that time he still stumbles over basic problems in Javascript and CSS (I see him report on the HOURS he has spent trying to find out where he's going wrong). In 20 years I've never seen someone use LC for 6 months and struggle over the basics.
Let me add to this. The man I'm talking about has written a training course on how to learn Javascript. But after two years he still hasn't learned how to use a debugger. Why? My guess is that there is already so much complexity with differentBrowsers + html + js + css + node packages + someFramework that it was just too much cognitive load to learn something else. With LC so much of the complexity is hidden that the incredibly important skill of debugging is right there in the IDE - it's literally one of the words at the top of the Script Editor. I had to Google just to find out if Safari had any debugger and if so how to enable it. For those who don't understand the benefits of a debugger, they wouldn't look for it.

Imagine dealing with the layers of complexity in differentBrowsers + html + js + css + node packages + someFramework and not having learned how to use a debugger to help manage this complexity. When one has reached the limits of what LC can do then it's time to take on the complexity of using open socket, open process, shell, load URL, Do As x in language Y, or building externals. But web development (even just client side) is complexity from the off. And yet this complexity is almost all that's being offered to novices.

In the UK we have companies springing up charging novices a year of full-time university tuition for a 6 month part-time course in web development. Or to put that another way - these novices are paying for 15 years of a LC indy license for a part-time course. If Javascript is so easy, why would people pay that much money to learn it?

sphere
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Re: Replace LiveCode Script with JavaScript, forever

Post by sphere » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:00 pm

Bernard wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:11 am
In the UK we have companies springing up charging novices a year of full-time university tuition for a 6 month part-time course in web development. Or to put that another way - these novices are paying for 15 years of a LC indy license for a part-time course. If Javascript is so easy, why would people pay that much money to learn it?
Because there are a lot of jobs for it. Compare that to the number of jobs where they ask LC.

PaulDaMacMan
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Re: Replace LiveCode Script with JavaScript, forever

Post by PaulDaMacMan » Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:38 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:23 pm
the host-OS-provided options returned with the alternateLanguages function
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Well, yeah:
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Screen Shot 2020-08-11 at 7.17.11 pm.png
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Seems like there should be at least one more on that list. JavaScript for Automation (JXA) is supposed to be a full fledged OSA scripting language on macOS since 10.10 Yosemite. Also I would think any 3rd party OSA installed should show up, if there still were any others (I beleive Frontier UserTalk is long dead).
My LCB Repos: https://github.com/PaulMcClernan/

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