LiveCode 5: Trial Download

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gayasoft
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LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by gayasoft » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:08 am

Hello
I wanted to ask if you could please fix the trial system so people owning a previous version can download it too without creating 2 million dummy accounts for this purpose as its not possible to download and trial it without going through the create account page.

I want to see how well it really is and if you finally fixed the long standing major issue of lacking versioning support / versioning usability with LiveCode 5 or if its still an closed little world on its own not meant for 2+ developers at all
Last edited by gayasoft on Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

dglass
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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by dglass » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:23 am

gayasoft wrote: I want to see how well it really is and if you finally fixed the long standing major issue of lacking versioning support / versioning usability with LiveCode 5 or if its still an closed little world on its own not meant for 2+ developers at all
At least according to the Release Notes nothing has changed in this regard, unfortunately. :(

gayasoft
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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by gayasoft » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:32 am

Thats why I'm asking as the bug with the trial system in the same go prevents me from verifying it. I don't trust release notes, they often sound better than the reality is

dglass
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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by dglass » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:07 am

Not sure how things could be worse than no mention at all in the release notes.

gayasoft
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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by gayasoft » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:41 am

dglass wrote:Not sure how things could be worse than no mention at all in the release notes.
Well I don't worry about better or worse. I just want to know if they want me to upgrade or not. If its still binary and not versionable the clear answer is no, as the yearly sub 3.0 - 4.0 and then the upgrade to 4.6 were enough investments into the only programming language on earth not versionable cause they use binary instead of plaintext files for the stacks etc

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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by Klaus » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:20 pm

Since the RunRev stafff does not read here on a regular base, I would recommend to write directly to: support@runrev.com

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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by jacque » Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:48 pm

gayasoft wrote:If its still binary and not versionable the clear answer is no, as the yearly sub 3.0 - 4.0 and then the upgrade to 4.6 were enough investments into the only programming language on earth not versionable cause they use binary instead of plaintext files for the stacks etc
I'm trying to figure out how it could possibly work without being binary. Stacks aren't text, they are compiled code, though your scripts start out as text. But as soon as you compile, it isn't text any more.
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gayasoft
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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by gayasoft » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:10 pm

As soon as it is compiled, right.
But there is no reason that the livecode files need to be binary as they aren't compiled or the LiveCode editor couldn't open them.

I understand that standalone stacks you export get compiled, makes sense as they act like modules / libraries in other language then but before that point there is no reason why the livecode files have to be in a non-mergable format at all but dozens of reasons against it (versioning, usage of 3rd party editors without hacking them into LiveCode, ...).
if they think its needed to 'easily' do their permanent background interpretation kind of like Eclipse on Java projects, then they just need to go the JAVA - Eclipse path for real and use 2 files, the livecode file and a temporary intermediate interprete code / compiled file for that purpose. In any case it just needs to happen more sooner than later so developers can work with LiveCode professionally, work on livecode projects with more than 1 person at all.

I just can't get rid of the feel that there is a strong desire to not make it programmer attractive by shooting down one of the fundamental base requirements for programmers.
If people could use VCS systems and properly version and branch stuff I'm sure we would have seen so much more stuff done in LiveCode than we so far did, likely even open source collaborative work (a thing thats totally impossible at the time), but if you can not branch you can't even research and test ideas reasonably, not even considering multi user work within such an environment ...

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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by mwieder » Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:34 pm

Git version control is on the way as a third-party plugin. No, it's not here yet, and I agree with the comments about the need to unwrap the binary format. It's doable but not ready for prime time yet.

malte
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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by malte » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:18 pm

I have been wishing for version control features for quite a while. The binary nature of a stack does not make it easy. Some substantial changes in the engine in 4 (being able to set the ID of any control) make it easier to describe a stack in XML, spit that out for versioning and re create the stack from that XML. However, I found no way yet to handle embedded audio clips or video clips. If those are used, I have no idea how to store them. The rest is doable, even though I only spit out the scripts, not all properties for controls. But I sure do want versioning too. This however does not render livecode useless for me, just a little inconvenient in team work. When working in a team, we tend to break things down into libraries and go versioning those as a plain text copy. Whereever we can, projects are broken up into modules with each developer being responsible for one module. Inconvenient, yes, very much so, yet not impossible.

Cheers,

Malte

gayasoft
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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by gayasoft » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:36 pm

a 'little' inconvenient is relative given that Live Code complete normally costs $1500 / yr / seat its more than just a little inconvenient out of my view.
If we were to talk about a 200-300 buck thing yeah, then you just have to bear with it, but not at prices in the range of MS Visual Studio
Last edited by gayasoft on Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by mwieder » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:46 pm

Does VS have a git plugin now? The last time I used it I had to step outside the IDE and use git from a command line. Good to know.

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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by mwieder » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:49 pm

Malte - I think Stephen Barncard figured out the embedded audio- and video-clips thing. I don't know what the magic handshake is, but you might ping him about it - I wasn't able to get anywhere with that myself, although I got the scripts and properties thing worked out to the point of being able to recreate everything from a git archive.

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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:50 am

gayasoft wrote:...Live Code complete normally costs $1500 / yr / seat...
Maybe "LiveCode Complete" is more complete than it needs to be.

I just went to the RunRev store and turned on every platform option I could find, and it still totalled up to less than $1500. And that included a lot of platforms I have no interest in.

Unless you really need everything in the "Complete" package, the actual cost of working with LiveCode can be much lower than $1500.
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gayasoft
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Re: LiveCode 5: Trial Download

Post by gayasoft » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:21 pm

The reason that was cheaper is cause its. It free updates for a year, only free updates for the current dot release which could be 3 months or whatever as there are no experience values nor any guarantees. Thus I used complete to get a figure per year

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