Keeping one's head below the top of the trench.

[stam]

From my personal point of view, the best way for introducing Livecode
to the Education Market is convincing the School Managers.

The problem is that teaching curricula are dictated to some extent by market forces - in most institutions i imagine setting a curriculum is rarely predicated upon a sage and knowledgable person evaluating each language on it's merits in a constructive and objective way.

Because the market uses java, c#, swift, flutter etc, that's what will be higher priority. Or alternatively will rely on personal experiences (usually from youth) which means languages like visual basic.

So you are right, the obstacle in your case are the teachers - but changing them isn't just a matter of educating them, it's a matter of managing public perception of LiveCode, which lets face it, is near non-existent. And the real pity is that it can be a really productive and pleasant platform for much more than just an entry language to programming.

Even the most willing person in the world wanting to find out more about LC will struggle to form a positive experience of superficial google searching (lets face it, you have about 15 min to convince people to consider it if you're lucky). A cursory search will find:
- a website which doesn't offer any 'meat', and maybe a couple of LC supporting website which are all a decade out of date.
- tutorials on the website - but 'lessons' are really only useful for those already dabbling in LC, practically impenetrable for non-users
- video tutorials - if you manage to find them on the website (no mean feat) they're behind a paywall
- a couple of courses on Udemy (better, but now quite outdated)
- maybe 20 or so videos on youtube - more if you dig deeper, but non-LC people won't have the attention span to do this

Now compare this with Qt i linked above. Qt already uses C++ so in public perception it's ahead of the game.A casual glance at the use cases by platform, industry etc on their website oozes attraction for developers wishing to go multi-platform and not with the the big names. In reality Qt will produce faster apps in general, but in many cases LiveCode could pony up equivalent apps with useable speed and the argument for going Qt is less strong.

In my mind, this is the headspace LC needs to occupy - but that needs major money... Social media campaigns, advertising, LC finding and helping devs produce quality apps that look the part, which it turn would serve as more advertising (eg on a website showing use-cases) and more, and in a *sustained* manner is major $$$.

This would have the trickle-down effect of bring LC into education - I would be very surprised in this day and age if LC managed this without something like the above, which is all the more pity...

[FourthWorld]

Qt contributors

[golife]

Well, I do not think that it is too helpful to anybody here to rant about LC or the team. Personally, I admire the team for the effort and work they are doing under highly constrained conditions. And I appreciate their work -- which is worth 100 x more than what is valued price-wise.

The $$$ are simply not there to do more. What is supported is a huge product for all kinds of platforms with thousands of supporting functions. And who cannot understand it? Industry funding -- difficult to find. To not have drowned so far is a miracle (to me). And it is not just done with marketing. Too much money would go down the drain. Only when everyone talks about LiveCode, teachers will jump in, otherwise, they will not. And how realistic is such scenario?

A solution could be end-user products that catch the market (not the developer market), even some niche maybe that is not so populated, and simply doing staff better than others have done it. People out there are not so sensitive about a millisecond and technical verbiage. But they care for a solution to their needs. And then they pay for it. They are not interested in how the cook is cooking. They just want to be served with a splendent dish.

[richmond62]

to rant about LC or the team

That was not a 'rant' at all (come over here to Bulgaria and experience real rants), but it was a trenchant point being made about
LiveCode's lack of educational reach and my belief that at least part of the reason for it lies with LiveCode (the company).

I am a bit like New Year, I come round with this sort of posting periodically on the theory (which, by what I can see, is not very effective)
that water eventually wears away a stone . . . the fact that some people "near to the throne" seem to react to my periodic postings quite
strongly does seem to indicate I am hitting a nerve . . .

Personally, I admire the team for the effort and work they are doing under highly constrained conditions. And I appreciate their work -- which is worth 100 x more than what is valued price-wise.

So do I, oddly enough. BUT I do feel that they are missing a chance.

After all, the first programming language a child learns stays with them for life.

Admittedly I learnt MiniFORTRAN and then FORTRAN before I learnt DBAS9 BASIC, but my heart lies with BBC BASIC, and children
I teach programming to have to put up with a fair bit of BASIC before I get onto LiveCode.

So, I believe that if LiveCode were to become a major educational player that would ensure it becoming more widely known and used
after school and University.

All the children I have taught LiveCode basics to, who have, subsequently, gone on to study programming either
at High School or University have told me that to solve programming 'puzzles' set them by their teachers, they have FIRST
sat down and worked things out in LiveCode BEFORE implementing them in C++, C# or whatever other language they are using in the classroom.

This alone proves LiveCode's value.

They just want to be served with a splendent dish.

"splendent" ? Splendid / Splendiferous ?

Or, as my Granny was wont to say, "Thon mun jalouse that qhile Inglis is yaisefu, it isnae thon mither leid."