Stencyl

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richmond62
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Stencyl

Post by richmond62 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:15 pm

"Worrying" growth of this kind of thing . . .

http://stencyl.com/
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stencyl.jpg

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Re: Stencyl

Post by dunbarx » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:05 pm

No coding, no value, beyond kids stuff.

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Re: Stencyl

Post by sphere » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:14 am

Yep there are more of this kind of programming environments.
Maybe fun to start learning code.
But if this has no value, why does Labview have value, drawing lines between components. (although Labview is far more difficult)

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Re: Stencyl

Post by FourthWorld » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:52 pm

Visual programming is a thing. Assembly programming is also a thing. And there are many things in between.

No single one of them is best for all tasks. Each brings something uniquely useful to the table.

Even LiveCode.
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Re: Stencyl

Post by richmond62 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:52 am

FourthWorld wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:52 pm
Visual programming is a thing. Assembly programming is also a thing. And there are many things in between.

No single one of them is best for all tasks. Each brings something uniquely useful to the table.

Even LiveCode.
A stunningly brilliant observation.

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Re: Stencyl

Post by richmond62 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:54 am

The thing that fusses me is the implication that one can achieve what one
achieves after years of learning programming languages by
dragging a few funny shapes around.

This is not possible.

What is possible is an extremely small subset of what one can achieve
after years of learning programming languages.
Last edited by richmond62 on Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stencyl

Post by dunbarx » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:21 pm

"This is not possible."

That is what I meant, not that such a thing has no value, rather that it cannot do all that much in terms of creating functional applications.

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Re: Stencyl

Post by richmond62 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:26 pm

That is what I meant, not that such a thing has no value, rather that it cannot do all that much in terms of creating functional applications.
Aha: but you'd put a comma in the wrong place. 8)

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Re: Stencyl

Post by FourthWorld » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:00 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:54 am
The thing that fusses me is the implication that one can achieve what one
achieves after years of learning programming languages by
dragging a few funny shapes around.

This is not possible.

What is possible is an extremely small subset of what one can achieve
after years of learning programming languages.
This is where LC could shine: Imagine a point-and-click system in layers, which eventually arrives at full scripting.

That's the elevator pitch of an education-focused IDE I started sketching out until I ran out of personal funds to invest in it. If you know of any relevant grants or other potential funding sources please let me know.
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Re: Stencyl

Post by richmond62 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:12 pm

This is where LC could shine
But the fact is it doesn't.

Could that possibly be down to the lack-lustre approach to getting it into schools?

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Re: Stencyl

Post by FourthWorld » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:18 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:12 pm
This is where LC could shine
But the fact is it doesn't.

Could that possibly be down to the lack-lustre approach to getting it into schools?
Right. Which is why I mentioned funding.

It's neither practical nor desirable to expect LiveCode Ltd to build all possible apps that can be built with LiveCode. As a dev tools vendor, they have neither the expertise nor the bandwidth. And worse, it would diminish opportunities for the community if LC were to pursue such opportunities.

The EDU kit I sketched out is best done outside the limits of their company. It's best done by a team focused on that one task. If they were to attempt it, the effort would take significant resources away from the very thing it needs most: a dedicated engine team to keep the underpinnings running. They do that now, and that's where we all benefit most from seeing them maintain their focus going forward.

There are many ways LC can be used to create a useful thing in itself, which also reflects well on the platform as a whole. EDU is just one. Industrial automation is another, collaboration toolkits are a very big one given where we all are with the pandemic, and there are hundreds more.

If each of us tends to our own opportunities, we can build cool stuff, build good businesses, and LiveCode benefits from the knock-on effects along the way.
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Re: Stencyl

Post by richmond62 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:11 am

If each of us tends to our own opportunities
The "only" problem is that my 'opportunity' lies largely in Education, and I spend most of my time with
LiveCode running up in-house stuff for which I get no direct financial return . . .

I could run my school perfectly well, never turning a computer on, and parents would continue
to stump up the fees.

Admittedly I know, and parents seem to think, that the provision of a suite of LC standalones designed for
both subject delivery and reinforcement enhance the experience of the children who attend my school
(also, as they spend 20 minutes working on an application it gives me the chance for a quick cup of coffee).

I spend considerable amounts of my "free" time (I have never quite managed to work out what 'free time' means)
on both continuing education (in terms of my reading and learning about advances in teaching techniques and so on,
and on running up standalones for my ever-expanding suite of programs for my school.

Cynical types might think that there is something a bit odd about a commercial company expecting
other people to do some of their heavy lifting, especially for no income.

Many people in this supposed 'community' have donated money several times to LiveCode,
recently just to keep its head above water. Having done that is it reasonable that that
company expects us to keep giving more; whether financially or developmentally?

Now, from an educational point of view the LC website is pretty hopeless:

1. There are NO example programs accessible on the website for end-users to see what one can produce.

2. The "lessons" do NOT look like the sort of "hold-my-hand" step-by-step stuff that busy teachers who, frankly,
don't have the time or the inclination to learn a programming language thoroughly, need.

3. I, like other educators who use LiveCode for class room stuff (are there any?) probably also don't have the
time or inclination to "get sh*t out for LiveCode's website", and probably think that is LiveCode's job.

There, I have just spent 20 minutes on what should already be screamingly obvious when I have the second half of a book
by Piaget to go through and take notes on, which is, arguably, more relevant to my current situation as I have just got a group
of 5 children with ADS (Annoying Distraction Syndrome . . . Ha, Ha: not funny one little bit) and I have to work out a whole slew of
dirty tricks to hold their attention for 90 minutes.

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Re: Stencyl

Post by richmond62 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:13 am

Screenshot 2020-09-02 at 13.10.55.png
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Whatever else Stencyl might be, that "choice" made me fall off my chair. 8)

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Re: Stencyl

Post by jiml » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:28 pm

Richard wrote:
This is where LC could shine: Imagine a point-and-click system in layers, which eventually arrives at full scripting.
Imagine an authoring tool with 5 levels of power that defaulted to easiest, most basic level, allowing you to progress through that power and complexity at your own pace. You could call it HyperCard. That might have some success in the educational market. ;)

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Re: Stencyl

Post by jacque » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:36 pm

jiml wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:28 pm
Imagine an authoring tool with 5 levels of power that defaulted to easiest, most basic level, allowing you to progress through that power and complexity at your own pace. You could call it HyperCard. That might have some success in the educational market. ;)
My thoughts exactly; mind meld. :) In fact, that was what hooked me into becoming a programmer. I heard once that HC had 50 million users, many in education.
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