MacOS Network Utility

[jacque]

Well spotted, jacque: a 'spotty' message perhaps.

HOWEVER, it is a rant that is of considerably larger proportions than yer average spam-hook.

True, though AI is getting better at such things. On the other hand it contains grammatical errors which isn't likely with a generated post.

[richmond62]

Aaaah: those grammatical errors COULD be due to the poster not being a native speaker of English.

[stam]

Hmmmm, Jacqui is rarely wrong, I should have just ignored… but it was uncharacteristically long and rant-y for spam.

Maybe spammers are evolving..!

[richmond62]

Now we seem to be deep in Pork Luncheon meat land.

[tetsuo29]

I think it would be cool to have a replacement that is coded in LiveCode. I haven't looked at the project that was shared earlier. However, I did Google and found this:

https://www.devontechnologies.com/de/apps/freeware

Not speaking or reading German, I had the page translated. I haven't tried it yet, but the Neo Network Utility looks promising.

[PaulDaMacMan]

Why even use this? Why not just use the terminal as advised by the message Network utility shows on launch:

Network Utility has been deprecated

For networking tools (netstat, ping, dig, traceroute, whois, finger), open Terminal and type the underlying command at the command line.

For Wi-Fi issues, open Wireless Diagnostics and follow the onscreen instructions to analyse your network connection.

If anyone needs help with the terminal commands, here's a simple guide: https://www.makeuseof.com/how-to-use-te ... placement/

Or why not write a replacement app as a front end for the terminal commands

Why not? Because if I wanted to do that I'd be using Linux or BSD instead of macOS. In fact Apple has been slowly losing me to Linux with this sort of thing for maybe about a decade or so, not that they care since they've replaced all the macOS die-hard users like me from their 'dark-days' of the mid-90s with iPhone / iOS users buying Macs and AppleTV boxes based on brand recognition.

Why was this deprecated at all when the underlying Unix command line tools that it's a UI for are not? Maybe because "Apple" is no longer "Apple Computers".

Like was said, it could be a good programming exercise to recreate the UI, but it's a bit like reinventing the wheel. Should I ever do that exercise I'll be sure to build it for Linux.

[richmond62]

I am sure the whole thing comes down to the fact that Apple no longer want to sell what we children of the 1960's understand by a computer, but a sort of sexted-up iPad.

The people at Apple know full well that 98% of people who used the Network Utility, are NOT going to muck around with the Terminal emulator.

The computer evolves from a clever number-cruncher to an entertainment centre (discuss in 20,000 words or more).

[stam]

While I appreciate your frustration and I'm not an apologist for Apple, the reality is: How many of their users every even knew about the Network utility or if they did, how many launched it more than 3 times - ever?

Yes, you and Richmond may have done, as I have I previously, but for this to be something you need on a weekly, monthly or even yearly basis would be surprising to me. It's not like we are on a Mac because it provides a network utility graphical front end to the CLI.
And regarding the CLI for this: It's not just "linux" (as if that was a single platform somehow) that uses the CLI - all platforms do, and now Apple conforms to that as well.

And is mentioned previously, this might seem a trivially small app to you, but it requires a team and resources to maintain. If only 3 in 100,000 users ever even run this more than once a year, that is not a wise investment.

From my personal point of view I'm happy that I can use the CLI should I ever develop a craving for pinging servers or running traceroute.
I mean it's literally just typing ping <servername>, or traceroute <servername>.

Then again there are online services that do this and much better than what the Network Utility used to do (as that was simply a GUI wrapper), for example https://www.host-tracker.com/en/ic/check-trace


So no, for all the things to complain about when it comes to Apple (and there are many), this doesn't even register for me.
If it is an issue, use the wonderful tool this forum is about and create a state-of-the-art GUI, why not...

[PaulDaMacMan]

While I appreciate your frustration and I'm not an apologist for Apple, the reality is: How many of their users every even knew about the Network utility or if they did, how many launched it more than 3 times - ever?

I'd wager quite a few have used it when they've need to, it's been part of the OS utilities since macOS"classic' (maybe even be on NeXT too?), why does it matter how often I might need to use it? I expect it because it's always been there when I did need it.

It's not like we are on a Mac because it provides a network utility graphical front end to the CLI.

It's not? I'm pretty sure that's EXACTLY what made me fall in love with macOS some time around 1987 (and HyperCard certainly helped). The computers I'd used before that were an Atari 400 and RadioShack TRS-80s so...so yeah, that is it.

And regarding the CLI for this: It's not just "linux" (as if that was a single platform somehow) that uses the CLI - all platforms do, and now Apple conforms to that as well.

I'm detecting condescension... I know that Linux is the kernel and not the OS, and that there are lots of different OS distributions that use that particular kernel or a derivative of it (perhaps with some nice low-latency patches!). Technically Android is Linux but people don't say that. I would imagine most coders at least have some familiarity with 'Linux' and probably know that can refer to Linuxes as a general category of OSes.

And is mentioned previously, this might seem a trivially small app to you, but it requires a team and resources to maintain. If only 3 in 100,000 users ever even run this more than once a year, that is not a wise investment.

I doubt much time at all was spent maintaining it, I think they did have a dedicated group for networking UI window dressing on top of various server tools, there was a "Mac OS X Server Edition" for a long time, then it got demoted to an AppStore app.

From my personal point of view I'm happy that I can use the CLI should I ever develop a craving for pinging servers or running traceroute.
I mean it's literally just typing ping <servername>, or traceroute <servername>.

Sure, I appreciated command-line tools existing at all I guess, and sure traceroute can be as simple as tracing a single address but there can also be more than that. https://ss64.com/mac/traceroute.html

Then again there are online services that do this and much better than what the Network Utility used to do (as that was simply a GUI wrapper), for example https://www.host-tracker.com/en/ic/check-trace

And what if I'm on a local network private hub with no internet access and just need to find the IP the printer has assigned or something like that? I know I can type at a terminal prompt (like it's 1970s CP/M or something) if I really needed to, but It's just not the same as having a nice UI that I can use the mouse with and not have to type at all. I'm sure I could find UIs from a third party or might be even be able to build one. But the point again is they already had one as part of their OS. If they're not doing anything with it they could release it to open source community.

This is certainly NOT the only complaint I've had about Apple over the decades, it's just that it's a symptom of the current direction they're slowly going in, since the success of the iPhone, and it just irritates me.

OK sorry, rant complete.

[PaulDaMacMan]

Like I said, I'm sure I could find a replacement from a third party
https://www.reddit.com/r/macapps/commen ... y_is_back/
https://www.devontechnologies.com/blog/ ... utility-10

[bobcole]

Earlier in this thread I posted a starting point for a replacement. See page 2.
Anyone want to add some functionality?
Bob

[jacque]

it's a symptom of the current direction they're slowly going in, since the success of the iPhone, and it just irritates me.

+1. I'm not fond of iOS and don't want it on my Mac either. It's why I've used an Android phone for the last 10 years and I do almost everything on my Chromebook. The only thing I use my Mac for these days is programming in LC and if it ever supports Chromebook I won't use the Mac at all. I used to be such a fan..

[stam]

OK sorry, rant complete.

Yeah that was a long one wasn’t it... Perhaps ease your sensitivities a bit?
Just because I’m disagreeing with you does not mean I’m being condescending or attacking you personally.

The long and short of my response:

1. You might enjoy the GUI app, but I’d put money on at least 90% of Mac users even being aware of its existence, let alone lament its loss.

2. Of those that who were, I’d wager 99% haven’t used more than 10 times. You might do, sure. I’ve used it previously. Its loss means nothing to me because I read the apple forums and saw its CLI only now. I have no feelings about this and it surprises me this is such an emotive topic that would generate such long rants.

3. Yes, it might be a “small app” but with every OS update they would need to do quality assurance with every update/upgrade. and likely have to re-engineer it with changes like we’ve seen with Sonoma. It’s an additional project for them and if only 0.000005% of their users use it, it becomes ann administrative and financial burden for them for next to no return.


Like I said, if it still existed I’d have used it at some point, but the loss of the GUI app doesn’t even register for me.
Clearly it does for you. So, rant away. Not sure what it achieves, but go for it!

[PaulDaMacMan]

OK sorry, rant complete.

Yeah that was a long one wasn’t it... Perhaps ease your sensitivities a bit?
Just because I’m disagreeing with you does not mean I’m being condescending or attacking you personally.

The long and short of my response:

1. You might enjoy the GUI app, but I’d put money on at least 90% of Mac users even being aware of its existence, let alone lament its loss.

2. Of those that who were, I’d wager 99% haven’t used more than 10 times. You might do, sure. I’ve used it previously. Its loss means nothing to me because I read the apple forums and saw its CLI only now. I have no feelings about this and it surprises me this is such an emotive topic that would generate such long rants.

3. Yes, it might be a “small app” but with every OS update they would need to do quality assurance with every update/upgrade. and likely have to re-engineer it with changes like we’ve seen with Sonoma. It’s an additional project for them and if only 0.000005% of their users use it, it becomes ann administrative and financial burden for them for next to no return.


Like I said, if it still existed I’d have used it at some point, but the loss of the GUI app doesn’t even register for me.
Clearly it does for you. So, rant away. Not sure what it achieves, but go for it!

The perceived condescension was about 'Linux is not an OS' remark, nothing to do with the merits of the network utility or its being removed from the OS. I'm sure i can come off as condescending sometimes, I don't really care, forgettaboutit.

You're missing some of the point of being annoyed by this sort of thing, it's part of a trend of dumbing down of the OS X and the iOS-ifying of it. Searching for alternative I found quite a few people complaining, upvoting complaints or questions regarding this. First they move it hiding the thing deep inside a .framework bundle in the System, and then they removed it. Is it that big a deal? Maybe not on its own.

Also again, I'd wager it cost mega-corp.Apple next to nothing to recompile that little utility for each version of the OS. As long as they don't change the NSButtons, NSMenu, etc. objects much (or even the iOS/MacCatalyst counter parts), then it should just be simple recompiling (and I'm sure that is very much automated too). They could and should keep it around as long as the set of CLI tools is still part of the OS without much (any?) cost or effort. It's not like I'm saying they should support Apple MonoFileSystem or Phone-net AppleTalk for all of eternity (although I'd bet it does still support dial-up?), this is a UI for things that are still part of the core of the OS (at least for now, who knows if a future Apple will do).

Anyway, that community released freeware utility serves as a fine substitute.

[PaulDaMacMan]

Earlier in this thread I posted a starting point for a replacement. See page 2.
Anyone want to add some functionality?
Bob

Maybe at some point. Thanks for sharing.

I saved the app as a zip, and have to constantly unzip and fix it every time Apple deletes or corrupts the application.
This is the very definition of a virus. It's destructive data loss.

I've tried permissions, locking, chflags, everything I can think of.

Has anyone had any luck on how to stop it from being erased by Apple?
Maybe adding it to SIP as a protected OS file somehow?

What? That is nuts.
You could change the bundle ID? Mangle its info.plist?, strip its code signature?, resign-it?, etc. so Apple's offending updater can no longer identify it as the same app?

I did post a link for suitable 3rd party knock-off replacement too. Which is a much easier route to go.

Still It could be nice to have its functionality in a cross-platform stack form.