MacOS Network Utility

[richmond62]

Those "nice" people at Apple have removed Network Utility from MacOS 11 onwards.

So I downloaded it from 'somewhere'
and popped it in my Utilities folder.

I have removed the URL from this post: subsequent messages should supply the reason for this.

[FourthWorld]

When people post copyrighted works to Archive.org they put that valuable organization at risk.

It may be wise to not draw attention to copyrighted works owned by large companies with a history of successful litigation at least until the current lawsuit against archive.org is resolved.

https://www.popsci.com/technology/inter ... e-lawsuit/

[stam]

Why even use this? Why not just use the terminal as advised by the message Network utility shows on launch:

Network Utility has been deprecated

For networking tools (netstat, ping, dig, traceroute, whois, finger), open Terminal and type the underlying command at the command line.

For Wi-Fi issues, open Wireless Diagnostics and follow the onscreen instructions to analyse your network connection.

If anyone needs help with the terminal commands, here's a simple guide: https://www.makeuseof.com/how-to-use-te ... placement/

Or why not write a replacement app as a front end for the terminal commands

[richmond62]

If Network Utility is copyright I still own a copy, the copy that came installed when I bought my 2018 Mac Mini with Mac OS 10.13 pre-installed.

I wonder what right Apple had to remove it?

All that I did was reclaim my copy of the software.

People who have computers that came with versions of MacOS after Apple removed the software might . . .

I have a copy of 'SS-GB' by Len Deighton in my bookshelves.

Mr Deighton may well be the copyright owner; that does not give him the right to come and remove my copy.

Now, if I see more copies of 'SS-GB' somewhere I am free to point that out. I certainly would advocate that anyone interested in obtaining a copy of the book go about that in a legal fashion.

[stam]

Interesting definitions.

To use your analogy, if you take take your old MacOS off the shelf Network Utility will still be there and apple would indeed have no right to remove it.

But it’s been deprecated from the latest OS’s and an alternative is given.

This is more akin to being pissed off because book 10 of a book series that used to include a CD with every book now doesn’t, and points to a web page instead.

Would you really be wondering “what right” the author had to not produce the next instalment in the series without a CD?

At the end of the day you can choose to stay with an older OS to enjoy Network Utility, 32 but apps and what have you… or you can use the newer OS free of charge and with no real loss of functionality in any way. Up to you…

[Emily-Elizabeth]

Here are the commands to duplicate most of the functionality of Network Utility. Either type them in the terminal or do a GUI wrapper around them. The shell function is synchronous so results will only be displayed once the command is done. If you do the ping command without a count parameter, no results will be displayed as it doesn't return (CTRL-C in the terminal to stop it).

Port Scanning
nc -z [v] address startPort[-endPort]

Whois
whois domainName

Ping
ping addressOrDomainName [-c count]

NSLookup
nslookup addressOrDomainName

Trace Route
traceroute addressOrDomainName

Netstat
- Display routing information
netstat -r
- Display comprehensive network statistics for each protocol
netstat -s
- Display multicast information
netstat -g
- Display the state of all current socket connections
netstat

[FourthWorld]

Making a UI for this in LiveCode would seem like a useful exercise.

[richmond62]

Would you really be wondering “what right” the author had to not produce the next instalment in the series without a CD?

No, but I would wonder if s/he had the right to stop me ripping a few pages out of the previous installment and interleaving them between pages of the new installment.

[stam]

To stick with your inane analogy, you would be at fault if you stole the older book and did that.

The point being that you did not copy network utility from your own System but downloaded it from a site that is already being sued for copyright infringement, which is what is ill-advised here.

Apple would have no issue with you copying an app from your own old OS, that you licensed, and putting it on your new system. Apple would not block you in any way if you did that.

In fact I’m fairly certain Apple doesn’t give a toss what you do - but you should not expect Apple to support deprecated software (the clue is in the adjective).

[richmond62]

I wonder why the archive people don't either:

1. Perform some sort of triage on what people upload.

or

2. Have some sort of disclaimer re copyrighted material available on their website.

[richmond62]

I would not class my analogy as 'inane': it may be unlikely, and were someone to perform it, destructive.

Whether it is 'inane' or not is not quite the point.

Unlike my bookshelf containing physical copies of books I own, ownership of software is a bit different: one cannot easily clone copies of books.

However, I wonder if anyone has explored the legality of companies such as Apple removing software from one's computer?

Certainly, when, after about 15 years of never having need to use Network Utility on any of my Macs, I went lookimg for it on my main machine, I assumed there was something wrong with my setup (having seen it their when lòoking in my Utilities folder).

Subsequently, asking online I found that Apple had removed that software during an update.

[stam]

Richmond.
If you don't want people calling you out on silly examples then don't offer silly examples

'Inane' refers to the fact that you are offering the example of tearing out pages from an old book to intersperse in the pages of a new book as an analogy for a software company classing an app as deprecated and removing it with the new OS and the end user obtaining the app from a potentially illegal source and installing on the new OS.
If someone actually did do this to a book in real life, chances are you'd rightly consider them a basket case.

Apple providing software means that Apple has to keep maintaining said software through all the OS changes, since Apple owns the software and licences you to use their products. You do not own the software, you own the right to use it within limitations.

Keeping this app current means devoting resources for maintenance of an app that very few people use and which already is catered for by the command line (those who do need these functions are more more likely than not comfortable with the CLI anyway). Obviously a decision was made that it's a waste of resources to do so.
Leaving the existing app without modification on your system as the OS changes may well lead to a situation where the app no longer works and then Apple would be at fault and would be a risk for the company.

But regardless, your analogy is invalid.
In 'book' terms, you own the physical book and have the right to read it's contents, scribble on the pages or even eat them for dinner if you so feel inclined and yes, tear them out and stick them in a new book. But do not own the contents of the book - eg you cannot publish it's text or images as your own. Similarly with computers, you own the physical computer but you do not own the content - the software. You are licensed to use the software within the terms provided by it's owners. You know, those silly EULA things no one reads...

In other words, your statement below is incorrect:

If Network Utility is copyright I still own a copy, the copy that came installed when I bought my 2018 Mac Mini with Mac OS 10.13 pre-installed.

You own the Mac Mini and you were granted a licence to use MacOS 10.13 and it's bundled utilities. No update from Apple will remove Network Utility from MacOS 10.13 as this was included in the EULA and will continue to forever be yours when using MacOS 10.13. However this does not extend to all future versions of MacOS forever. To be clear, no ownership of either the OS or the utilities bundled with it is conferred to you legally speaking (again with that EULA...).

And for the record this is not a unique Apple thing. Why don't you try and see if you can get Internet Explorer on Windows 11?
In June of this year IE 11 was deprecated and is now impossible to install on Win11. It was there on Win10 and removed with upgrade to Win11. You are forced to use Edge or a 3rd party browser.
This is a more significant issue because there is loss of function - no other browser than IE can generate private certificates (a real issue for K Software's code signing certificates on Windows).

[stam]

However, I wonder if anyone has explored the legality of companies such as Apple removing software from one's computer?

You really should have read that End User Licence Agreement before accepting it...

[richmond62]

Well, well stam, you really had 'a go' at me there.

AND, possibly I deserved it . . .

However, that is all water off a duck's back as far ad I am concerned.

HOWEVER, what you might like to think about is that many, many people might share my view . . .

AND, while legality may be one thing, common opinion may be another.

One extremely common opinion is that reading a EULA is a waste of timr and has no ultimate value . . .

Even if for the very simple reason that once people start sharing pirate copies of my software the sheer effort and cost of pursuing those people would be more trouble than it is worth.

I remember reading a Blog by Kai Kraus (the genius behind Bryce) about 24 years ago . . .

He decided to take a year 'off' and packed a suitcase of CDs of Bryce 2, and set off. When he landed in Indonesia (? might be wrong, 24 years is quite a time), he said everyone said, "Oh, we've already downloaded that." He wrote that he was so happy that people had been empowered by his software he really didn't care that they had not paid for it.

Now, for the sake of argument, Apple's Network Utility is NOT 'up there' with 3D rendering software . . . so what's the beef?

[stam]

Certainly did not mean to have a go at you personally Richmond, but you do seem to make me want to respond lol

I'm sure most, if not all, of us have used less-than-legal software at some time or another. I have zero issues with this but at the same time wouldn't advertise or promote this!

EULA is the legally binding document that sets the terms of using commercial software - it's tedious and pointless in the sense that you're going to accept and use the software anyway if you've gone as far as obtained the software and are reading it on installation - but it does set the terms of legality, which is what you specifically queried

Now, for the sake of argument, Apple's Network Utility is NOT 'up there' with 3D rendering software . . . so what's the beef?

Not sure what the beef is - you were the one that brought this all up lol!
My counterpoints were that a) there is a viable, recommended and future-proof alternative, so why moan about it, b) it's Apple's right to do so and c) if you really want a GUI wrapper to the command line (which is what i think Network Utility was anyway, although I may wrong) why not do this in LC?