Hardware section / Operating system section

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jacque
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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by jacque » Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:04 pm

I've wished the IDE would run on my Chromebook more than once but I was pretty sure it wouldn't work so I didn't try. I find myself using the CB more than my Mac these days. It does run LC Android apps pretty well aside from some orientation glitches but the IDE is a different beast.

Given the popularity of Chromebooks in education these days, it would be a nice thing to add to LC's supported platforms.
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
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richmond62
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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by richmond62 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:23 pm

in education these days
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TW.jpeg
TW.jpeg (15.72 KiB) Viewed 7995 times
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Anything that furtheres Livecode's use as and educational tool . . . 8)

RCozens
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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by RCozens » Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:24 am

stam wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:54 pm
i was talking about using the ChromeBook to run the IDE
Hi Stam, et al.

Has anyone looked into this further in the past two years?

My old HP Win 10 box is getting long in the tooth, and I am very interested in exploring developing LC Android apps on a ChromeBox.

Cheers!

Rob
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stam
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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by stam » Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:16 am

It's been a while since I tried but couldn't get LC to run on Chromebook because of missing dependencies.
I was able to dual-boot into a linux distro but I'm guessing that would defy your intentions or running android apps in ChromeOS and you'd probably be better off just running Linux directly in that case...

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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by RCozens » Sun Jul 30, 2023 5:56 pm

Thanks Stam,

I was looking at ChromeOS because I want an OS that allows me to run my box standalone and hoped ChromeOS would hide its Unix roots from me.

I live in an area where WiFi is intermittent and slow. I understand Win !! (and new Mac?) boxes will not run off line. Is that correct?

If so, it would seem Linux is my only choice.
Rob Cozens dba Serendipity Software Company
Manchester, CA USA

Each new generation gives more attention to the man-made world...
and less attention to the world that made man.

jacque
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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by jacque » Sun Jul 30, 2023 6:20 pm

I Iove my Chromebook and a couple of years ago I tried to get LC on it. You do need a Linux partition, which is dead simple to do, it's a one click thing in system settings. I know nothing about Linux so. Mark Weider helped me with the command line to run the installer. That worked.

But Chrome OS treated every window as a separate app, or at least they didn't talk to each other, so it didn't work. I wish we could do this because my Chromebook is my laptop now. I don't know enough about Linux to install whatever I need.

BTW, Chromebooks run Linux in parallel, you don't need to reboot. You can run Chrome apps,, Android apps, and Linux apps as if they are all native. Chrome OS manages the correct emulator.
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by jacque » Sun Jul 30, 2023 6:37 pm

Also: Chromebooks are heavily dependent on internet access. They will run offline but you will be constrained in what you can do. Apps that don't need internet access will run, but many are web apps that require access. Android apps that are self-contained will work, for example.

Do you have any links to info about Windows and Macs failing to run without access? You may be thinking about the new way both call home on app launch to verify the signing certificate. I think that only happens on first launch, though Microsoft sometimes verifies on every launch. It's new enough that I'm not sure how it works exactly.
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
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richmond62
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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jul 30, 2023 10:01 pm

The easiest way to run LC on Linux without a huge financial outlay is like this:

1. Dig that 15-25 year old 32-bit laptop out of your garage/attic/lobby-press and install Debian 12 32-bit on it.

2. Faff around (information on internet) so you have root access.

3. Install 32-bit Livecode on it.

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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by RCozens » Mon Jul 31, 2023 4:34 am

Thanks for your suggestion, Richmond.

Actually I can get a new 64 bit Linux box for $99: https://www.amazon.com/Ubuntu-Computers ... B0C7PYV2FC

I have a monitor, so all else I need are a Bluetooth keyboard & mouse, and I should be set on the hardware end for less than $150.

Cheers!

Rob
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Manchester, CA USA

Each new generation gives more attention to the man-made world...
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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by RCozens » Mon Jul 31, 2023 4:55 am

Great to hear from you, Jacque.

The reality is I don't use my Win 10 laptop for much except eMail, web browsing, and LiveCode. Occasionally text editing and spreadsheets. It's close to ten years old and beginning to throw up system errors, so it's time to retire it.

My perception that Win 11 would not work offline came from a close friend who at one time sold Windows boxes and was also at one time IT director for a multi-national energy company. Her experience is admittedly dated, but she does still monitor hardware development. But truthfully, even if it isn't true that with Win 11 Microsoft wants everything in the cloud, I have become disenchanted with their approach, which has shifted from "Here's our box, use it the way you want" to "Here's our box, use it the way we have decided you should use it."

Stay well,

Rob
Rob Cozens dba Serendipity Software Company
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Each new generation gives more attention to the man-made world...
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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by jacque » Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:51 am

I have become disenchanted with their approach, which has shifted from "Here's our box, use it the way you want" to "Here's our box, use it the way we have decided you should use it."
That's why I don't like iOS, and the Mac is starting to drift toward the same thing.

I got curious and looked up the internet requirements for Mac and Windows. From what I can tell, both require an internet connection during installation but after that you can work locally. There are a bunch of workarounds if you Google "how to install Windows 11 without internet". The easiest way seems to be to just allow internet during installation and then switch to a local account. For Macs, internet is required during installation to check Find My Mac for stolen or missing machines, but I didn't see a way around that. After installation no internet is needed.

At any rate, it's moot if you're considering a Chromebox since you'll need internet for that. I like ChromeOS a lot and there are some nice features I don't find on my Mac. I also like that ChromeOS is probably the most secure OS around these days. Besides the monthly updates, it checks on every startup to see if the OS has been altered. If so, it repairs itself. Malware can't live there very long.

Unfortunately, if you want to use it to develop LC software, I can't find how. Since it's got Linux I'm pretty sure there's a way but I don't have the knowledge. If you go down that path, I'd love to know.
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
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stam
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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by stam » Mon Jul 31, 2023 2:30 pm

jacque wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:51 am
I got curious and looked up the internet requirements for Mac and Windows. From what I can tell, both require an internet connection during installation but after that you can work locally.
MacOS does not require internet connectivity unless you want to use iCloud features (which by default are... connected to the internet).
While you are asked for an internet connection you can skip that step. And you don't need to do it.

I can't say for sure re: Windows but am fairly sure you don't need internet connectivity unless you want to enable the equivalent of iCloud features.

Sure, you may not get the best out of various features, but since these said features are online, that should not be a problem if you don't want your data online - there are other alternatives available from other vendors.

Again, it's been a while since I used ChromeOS but much more of your data is in Mr Google's pocket that with either Apple or MS.
Also - saying that ChromeOS is the most secure OS around these days is a rather contentious statement ;)
Remember that Mr Google is not a benevolent deity but does own all your data...

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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by RCozens » Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:18 pm

Morning All,

If I were committed to developing Android apps, I would find the ability to run my apps on the box that compiled them very attractive. I've worked with dual OS configurations previously (eg: DOD-hosted p-System).

But the cheapest reasonable Chromebox I've seen costs 3x the Linux box I'm looking at, and it has only one-third the processor speed. Chromeboxes that match the Linux box's 3GHz clock are 5x as expensive.
Rob Cozens dba Serendipity Software Company
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Each new generation gives more attention to the man-made world...
and less attention to the world that made man.

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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by richmond62 » Mon Jul 31, 2023 8:06 pm

I believe it IS possible to install ChromeOS on a 'vanilla' laptop.

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Re: Hardware section / Operating system section

Post by jacque » Mon Jul 31, 2023 8:44 pm

stam wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2023 2:30 pm
MacOS does not require internet connectivity unless you want to use iCloud features (which by default are... connected to the internet).
While you are asked for an internet connection you can skip that step. And you don't need to do it.

I can't say for sure re: Windows but am fairly sure you don't need internet connectivity unless you want to enable the equivalent of iCloud features.
It is only during installation that internet is required, and only on Mac (you can work around it on Windows, from what I read.) Since it's been years since I had to set up a new OS, I was relying on these:
https://apple.stackexchange.com/questio ... t-possible
https://iboysoft.com/news/an-internet-c ... macos.html
Of course, it is the internet so who knows.
Also - saying that ChromeOS is the most secure OS around these days is a rather contentious statement ;)
Remember that Mr Google is not a benevolent deity but does own all your data...
I make a distinction between privacy and security. I think ChromeOS is the most, or one of the most, secure because of its self-healing properties and constant system validations.

You are correct about privacy though, I have been following those concerns for some years. Google has changed its data policies in the last couple of releases and it is now very similar to the way Apple does it. All data is encrypted end-to-end, wherever possible data is kept locally, and Google does not sell your data to anyone (and never has.) Apple and Google manage their data collections the same way; it stays internal to the company and is used to target advertising. The advertisers do not know who is seeing their ads. Here is what Apple collects about you, which is pretty much identical to how Google does it:
https://www.wired.com/story/apple-priva ... ollection/
I don't know if Apple allows you to change your advertising ID; I change it on my Google account now and then.

Being aware, I take steps to avoid giving both Apple and Google any more data than necessary. I have three browsers in various lockdown states which I use depending on what I am researching. I do not use Safari, Chrome, or Google search unless I don't care if they know what I'm looking for (so they mostly get programming queries and generic stuff like the weather.) I have opted out of targeted ads, and Android lets me block permissions per app.

It may sound a little paranoid but I think of it as cautionary. Google used to let you see what they knew about you, and I was amused to see they thought I was a 35-year-old male.
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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