Looking for a volunteer tester...

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kdjanz
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Re: Looking for a volunteer tester...

Post by kdjanz » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:38 am

Yes that worked as well as can be expected in Catalina. A standard double click said I couldn't run it as usual, but a right click choosing open leads me to this dialog
Warning.png
which might be scary for some clients, but allows me to run it successfully. Having done that once, it opens with the standard double click the second time around.

Kelly

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Re: Looking for a volunteer tester...

Post by jmburnod » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:34 am

Hi Bogs,
Bogus text works like a charm here (mojave) :D
Decompressed automatically and opened with right-click (no registered developer)
Best
Jean-Marc

bogs
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Re: Looking for a volunteer tester...

Post by bogs » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:39 am

Heh, thank you both, I guess I will have to find out what a "registered developer" actually is, I thought off the top of my head that it was just self-signing the fields and giving it a name space :oops:

I find it odd that OSX has such issues unzipping what is, as far as I can see on 'nix, a regular zip file. In this 2nd test file, literally all I did was unzip it after creation on 'nix, then immediately re-zip it again using xArchiver. Looks like I'll have to look into a few things at least, you both certainly have my gratitude in pointing out the directions to look :D
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richmond62
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Re: Looking for a volunteer tester...

Post by richmond62 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:47 am

"Normal" double-click gives me this:
-
Screenshot 2020-07-28 at 10.45.53.png
-
Right-button click give me this (allowing me to run the thing):
-
Screenshot 2020-07-28 at 10.46.15.png

bogs
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Re: Looking for a volunteer tester...

Post by bogs » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:23 am

Yes, I found out that this is a very common issue after all, I was surprised at some of the software this happens with, software I would suspect the authors of would know how to not have this happen to their packages, so at least (I guess) I am in good company haha.

So far while looking into this, I've found it happens with -
Oracle's Java (JDK / JRE)
Open Office / Libre Office
Terraform
Oracle's SQLDeveloper
rclone (rclone actually suggests an interesting way to bypass the problem, however I have no way to test if this would apply).
rclone wrote: macOS installation from precompiled binary, using curl
To avoid problems with macOS gatekeeper enforcing the binary to be signed and notarized it is enough to download with curl.
However, even if it does work, it seems a long way to expect a typical end user to go.

I can see why a lot of smaller shops probably haven't bothered, after I found the requirements for notarizing an application so that GateKeeper would not display such a scary message (but still displays a message, apparently, just one that isn't as ominous):
aPic_GateKeeperMessage.png
Are you the GateKeeper, or the KeyMaster ?
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_macos_software_before_distribution wrote: Prepare Your Software for Notarization

Notarization requires Xcode 10 or later. Building a new app for notarization requires macOS 10.13.6 or later. Stapling an app requires macOS 10.12 or later.
...but I remained surprised Oracle would not have just filled the requirements, they are after all a HUGE shop, and their products (overall) tend to target every one (dev's and end users alike).

Very interesting stuff heh.

As for me, hack that I am, I'll pass on being a registered verified whatever.
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richmond62
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Re: Looking for a volunteer tester...

Post by richmond62 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:34 am

However, even if it does work, it seems a long way to expect a typical end user to go.
Well, at the risk of sounding patrician and looking down my nose at the plebs: as far as I'm concerned if
you don't know about a left-click by now on a Macintosh (Apple abandoned one-button mice in about 2000,
and most of us already had 2 or 3 button mice attached to our Macs by then) you shouldn't be allowed to use
the thing.

About 60% of the stuff I download (90% Open Source) requires a left-click: a small price for not having Apple's
controlling feelers inside the software.

Doing a left-click does not seem "a long way" unless you really do want to equate "a typical end user" with
some sort of beastie without an opposable thumb. 8)

bogs
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Re: Looking for a volunteer tester...

Post by bogs » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:52 am

I think you might have mis-interpreted what I meant. I wasn't referring to the left vs. right clicking, I was referring to using curl to bypass the 'scary message'.

Using curl in and of itself is relatively easy, but in a world where the CLI itself frightens average users, I can't see people using it to dl your app-du-jour, then modifying the system path, creating folders (from the CLI), etc etc etc.
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richmond62
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Re: Looking for a volunteer tester...

Post by richmond62 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:07 am

I think you might have mis-interpreted what I meant.
It isn't the first time, and it won't be the last. 8)

HOWEVER, after a lot of people frothing at the mouth about Apple's heightened security (whether justified or not),
ALL it takes is a left-click to be offered the option to circumvent them, so I don't really see the need to use curl or
anything else that may make end-users throw a wobbly. 8)

bogs
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Re: Looking for a volunteer tester...

Post by bogs » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:13 am

LOL! Was I frothing ? (Wipes chin with napkin...) huh, napkins dry, so I guess not :P

I would have to guess that, to say the least Richmond, you (and probably 99% of the rest of the members of this <or any> programming forum) are not going to be considered amoung the group commonly referred to as the 'typical' or 'average' end-user. Typical or average end-user covers the vast majority of people using computers today, in that they use them in a manner similar to someone using an appliance, like a toaster or refrigerator.

You, and most others participating here, by virtue of writing and testing code alone, are way beyond that stage.

Now, if this were say, the late 70's to early 80's, the typical end user was quite a different beast. In an era where you (most likely) had to at least partially assemble your system (if not completely assemble it), and frequently had to install your operating system *and* configure a lot of it, as well as read manuals to find answers to things that stumped you, I think a little scary message would be shrugged off (I know my father and I shrugged off many and figured out how to work through them).

Whether the change was for the better or not, I couldn't say.
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kdjanz
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Re: Looking for a volunteer tester...

Post by kdjanz » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:39 pm

I don’t think the Curl trick is going to work anymore. Shortly after installing Catalina, I moved an app from one of my machines to another over my LAN and got the same message and had to do the right click open as if it had come from the big bad internet. I believe Big Sur is going to be more so, since the beta iOS and iPadOS are checking who is peaking at the clipboard etc.

I don’t mind Apple being the Nanny state however, since I seem to have been designated as the IT person for the family and I’m the one that has to sort out the messes when something goes wrong. If Apple can keep the rest of the family on the straight and narrow, then there will be less tech support for me! As long as they leave a back door so that I can shoot myself in my own foot on my own machine!

Kelly

bogs
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Re: Looking for a volunteer tester...

Post by bogs » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:50 pm

Heh, I understand completely Kelly, until my mom passed I was also the 'IT Dept.' for building and setting up any equipment at their house. I didn't actually mind providing a lot of support, they always had good coffee and usually a steak or other equally great dinner for me :)

The only time it was uncomfortable was when they tried to pay me, but thankfully I broke them of that after the first few tries :twisted:
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