Announcing Xavvi, a Great Leap Forward for App Building

[richmond62]

The Youtube video is "right there":

https://youtu.be/vAHGn8PSdAA
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[mwieder]

I think Kevin's response at 13:08 to why xavvi is important is brilliant. Xavvi basically sidesteps the 6-week language and environment learning curve.

[SirWobbyTheFirst]

I just want to chime in on the whole "AI will make or break a business" thing that was discussed earlier. Personally, I'm not fussed about AI taking my job so much as I'm more concerned about the power consumption for the hardware required to run AI and what that means for the climate. Let's not forget we had two days last year where the temperature broke 30°C and even 40°C and huge swaths of the UK and Europe burst into flames, California and Australia are always on fire during the summer and the polar ice caps have had their smallest growth for the 5th time in 45 years.

Currently, ChatGPT sits on top of hardware that needs thousands of watts to run and the cold temperatures this year have been brutal so far, it's only the last week or two that I haven't had to have the heating on constantly to keep a small flat warm. I'm not remotely concerned with AI taking my job because at the rate we're going, we're more likely to kick the bucket from heat stroke, freezing or worse yet, huge swaths of land being flooded or rendered uninhabitable.

If even half of us are here this time next decade I'll be surprised.

[dunbarx]

SirWobbyTheFirst

If even half of us are here this time next decade I'll be surprised.

We will be here. There are always what seem like existential crises looming. It reminds me of what Tommy Lee Jones said (paraphrased) in the first "Men in Black":

There is always a spaceship hovering over the earth threatening to blow us up if we do not immediately...

At least we know.

Craig

[stam]

I wouldn’t be so pessimistic. I draw encouragement from how quickly nature re-established itself soon after the pandemic forced all aeroplanes out of the air. Once civilisation stumbles due to AI driven energy consumption reverting to pandemic-style travel restrictions will sort it all out.

After all, the climate change driven by chatGPT cannot be even vaguely compared to what aeroplanes and cars do to our climate.

Then again, the “deniers” will be out in force again, because, you know, “they can’t be told what to do” and “what do experts know anyway”.

Maybe there is no hope for humankind after all….

[dunbarx]

Stam.

Just tell "deniers" not to look up.

In any case, we will still be here. And know, AI will save energy as well. Look at all the jobs that will disappear. Fewer commuters on the road. I miss that from two years ago

Craig

[dunbarx]

Even I thought that was overly snarky.

The world will adjust, it always has, because it always had to. It will just be somewhat different.

It is up to human beings (the worst kinds of people) to adjust. They alway have...

Craig

[jiml]

Richard,

If I were writing formally I'd probably substitute "time" with "activity". Absent direct observation, actual time usage is difficult, perhaps impossible, to truly measure.

So true. For example the important Time Spent Listening is always a tricky metric for webcasters to accurately measure.

StatCounter's methodology is described in their Fact Sheet,

Thanks for that. Yes, I see it's more about clicks than time spent.

JimL

[anmldr]

Is XAVVI already a product? What company owns it? What is being proposed, such as, creating a way for LC to interact with XAVVI?

There are too many posts for me to read them all in this thread. I am vision impaired. So please don’t get too snarky

Linda

[jacque]

Is XAVVI already a product? What company owns it? What is being proposed, such as, creating a way for LC to interact with XAVVI?

There are too many posts for me to read them all in this thread. I am vision impaired. So please don’t get too snarky

Linda

Xavvi is Livcode's leap into AI. I was skeptical at first but I'm convinced now we need it. Here is a link to a video and more info: https://www.livecode.com/xavvi

If you can support the campaign I think your LC experience will be much enhanced.

[stam]

I may be completely wrong, but the impression I got was that Xavvi is livecode’s leap into no-code rather than purpose built for AI.

With the advent of openAI they’ve cleverly used this to incorporate AI functionality because it’s its easier than doing so in the traditional IDE - both the interface and “actions” are simpler and more streamlined.

As a no-code front end to LC, it’s been designed to produce clean liveCodeScript, but that’s generated by the front end, not the AI, as they have I think commented that purely AI-derived code may not be as accurate.

I too am convinced this is a needed step. Having a web IDE with AI tools to accelerate development would make this so much more accessible and even for experienced devs it would free up so much time.

My main concern is cost as the £££ for subscriptions are piling up - and while I use LC a lot, I do so for non-profit. But I’m willing to pay up a bit more in the hope this will get developed and if successful that the subs will be cheaper in the future (eg merging Xavvi and LC subs) so have pledged in the hope this gets built!

[richmond62]

As Xavvi leverages A.I. I presume all stacks &/or standalones produced with its help cannot be copyrighted: which, presumably
means source code cannot be copyrighted, which might mean that LC and their customers are stuck 'in the middle of the
deep blue sea' somewhere in a very grey area re copy protection.

1. LiveCode is copyright.

2. Stuff produced with the aid of A.I. is not copyrightable.

https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/a ... 234661683/

https://gptzero.me/

https://www.zerogpt.com/

[paul@researchware.com]

THe AI helps you write Livecode script. As you said in point 1) Livecode is copyrightable. I think you are interpreting some edge legal ruling too broadly. The Livecode or Xavvi app you build - and you still build it, even if assisted by AI - will still be copyrightable (at least here in the US).

[richmond62]

even if assisted by AI - will still be copyrightable

That is good to know.

[stam]

I think there is an ongoing legal case where code used to train AI was felt to violate copyright and the copyright holders are taking MS/openAI to task on this.

Theoretically if copyright holders win, then any code used to train AI for livecode that is subject to copyright (if any such exists) may become an issue. But outside of that probably no issue. This does also include MIT licences etc however, as AI ignores the sparse requirements.

On that note, the argument that the developer constructs the app even if assisted by AI and therefore doesn’t need to worry about probably doesn’t hold water. The copyright infringement is about code copied from source and disseminated without recognition as “product of AI”. This would be of the same magnitude as a livecode dev using opensource code but violating the licence agreement. It doesn’t become “legal” just because a dev put it all together in an app. And of course you can’t copyright code that is already under copyright. Not even in the US…