Chasing a moving target.

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richmond62
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Chasing a moving target.

Post by richmond62 » Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:29 pm

SShot 2022-06-03 at 22.28.24.png
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https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/13621/xcode

This is what it is, and the big question is, is it worth the effort?

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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by FourthWorld » Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:46 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:29 pm
SShot 2022-06-03 at 22.28.24.png
-
https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/13621/xcode

This is what it is, and the big question is, is it worth the effort?
Apple has been delivering IDEs for their OSes since at least 1986 when they premiered Macintosh Programmer's Workshop. Never used MPW myself (along with many other devs I preferred Think Pascal and later Think C, both from Symantec). But some people really like Apple's tooling.

Seems a matter of personal taste. If you like it, it's worth it. If not, the world has no shortage of great tools. You could even use LiveCode. :)
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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by richmond62 » Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:50 pm

You could even use LiveCode.
I do, from time to time . . . :shock:

BUT, to knock out an iOS standalone one needs to 'keep getting sweaty' . . .

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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by FourthWorld » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:02 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:50 pm
You could even use LiveCode.
I do, from time to time . . . :shock:

BUT, to knock out an iOS standalone one needs to 'keep getting sweaty' . . .
The web is where it's at. It's like the HyperCard we used to enjoy, when no one needed standalones because everyone already had the engine preinstalled. Browsers are preinstalled on every GUI device made, no matter the OS, no matter the size. They take care of the packaging and the OS-vendor-hoop-jumping, and we get to share nothing more than a simple URL to distribute apps.

And on the web, you don't have the shakedown from an OS vendor demanding a chunk of your business revenue ("Nice windows you got here. It'd be a shame if anything were to happen to them.").

Free. Open. Decentralized.
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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by richmond62 » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:15 pm

The web is where it's at.
Try telling Bulgarian teenagers who want to develop side-scrollers for their iOS and Android phones.

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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by FourthWorld » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:23 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:15 pm
The web is where it's at.
Try telling Bulgarian teenagers who want to develop side-scrollers for their iOS and Android phones.
https://www.crazygames.com/t/side-scrolling

Add a manifest file to the root level of a site and you can have a separate browser instance with no URL bar, native look, native feel, installs as easily as adding an icon to your home screen:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressi ... pplication
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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by richmond62 » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:40 pm

Try telling Bulgarian teenagers attending my LiveCode classes who
want to develop side-scrolling games for their phones.

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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by FourthWorld » Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:13 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:40 pm
Try telling Bulgarian teenagers attending my LiveCode classes who
want to develop side-scrolling games for their phones.
LC doesn't deploy to the web?
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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by stam » Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:28 pm

I guess for me the biggest obstacle to considering “the web” as a deployment platform is that i don’t actually use web apps in my daily life. Every single app and game I use is an actual app.

Ok yes, for some things I use web and I guess they could be construed as “apps” but none of these work offline or follow the standard interface guidelines I’m accustomed to as a user. Plus usual transactional behaviour can fail completely with refreshing the page (or closing it).

Based mainly on my own experiences as a user rather than a developer, HTML5 apps just don’t feel tangible enough to replace “normal” apps.

I understand all the arguments for pushing web apps, but I’m probably not alone in feeling this… on the desktop this is even more pronounced as you don’t have to use the AppStores and don’t have to have a bite taken out of your profits (although you then have to organise your own hosting, bandwidth, accepting a loss in visibility).

Keeping an open mind on the matter, but I for one can’t see the web is “where it’s at” right now… at least not until big hitters like Apple and Microsoft get on the same train and push tooling and infrastructure forward…

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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:31 pm

Stam, what do you use for maps on your laptop?

We live in a funny world: On the desktop, everyone says "It must be on the web!". Then on their phones they say, "It must be a native app!".

I don't need to understand it. As a developer my job is to merely hear it and deal with it.

Most of the world deals with it by packaging web apps inside of native bundles (as in React Native).

Personally, I drop apps on my phone where the vendor provides a web version. Facebook, for example, is not merely more trustable run through Firefox, it's a much better, more flexible experience.

Most folks making apps also need web versions. With modern tooling, they're increasingly the same thing.
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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by jacque » Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:30 pm

The Google ecosystem is largely web apps, and if you're a Chromebook user it's even more pronounced. If LC wants to move into the education space, where Chromebooks are very popular, then web apps are almost a necessity.

I prefer native apps myself, but now that I use my Chromebook more often than not, I realize the need for web apps. My Android apps do run on Chromebook but not nearly as smoothly.
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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:45 pm

the education space
Very droll.

There is NO unified 'space', education CAN and SHOULD be everywhere; all-pervasive and unavoidable.

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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by stam » Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:26 am

jacque wrote:
Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:30 pm
The Google ecosystem is largely web apps, and if you're a Chromebook user it's even more pronounced.
You are unquestionably correct that on chromebook webapps are a must...
But that's only because the chromebook ecosystem is geared towards this and doesn't generalise well to other ecosystems...
For me this proves it's possible but requires the appropriate backing from the OS - which for mac/win doesn't really exist, hence my point above.
Apps don't exist in a vacuum..

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Re: Chasing a moving target.

Post by jacque » Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:02 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:45 pm
There is NO unified 'space', education CAN and SHOULD be everywhere; all-pervasive and unavoidable.
That may be an Americanism. Substitute "market" if you like.
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