Not working as expected?

Bringing your stacks to the web

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richmond62
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Re: Not working as expected?

Post by richmond62 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:17 pm

Quite a while ago LiveCode had a "stab"at producing something that would run in a web-browser, and it did,
after a fashion. That was later abandoned, and I don't know why that was.

Now there is a new version.

Now here are my expectations (for what they are worth):

1. If I make a LiveCode stack I know that I can run off standalones from it to run on Windows, Linux and Macintosh in an extremely
easy and straightforward way.

2. I know that I can run off standalones to run on Android and iOS with a bit more fiddling around.

My personal experience is that making standalones for Windows, Linux and Macintosh results in standalone executables that
98% of the time reproduce the functionality of the source stack as well as its appearance (and that 2% can, normally, be ironed
out without undue effort).

My expectations re something that can be viewed on a web-browser
(regardless of the underlying operating system that web-browser is running on) are
similar to my expectations of a standalone on the three desktop platforms I mentioned.

So, for the sake of argument, the very simple stack I prepare of a slideshow of my holiday snaps should look
almost identical in a web-browser to a standalone, and its functionality should be the same.

Or, to get a bit more technical, a web-based version of my Devawriter Pro (that leverages non-standard Unicode fonts)
should allow end-users everything that a desktop standalone offers.

This is also the way I understand what is written here: https://livecode.com/

"Create native applications for iOS, Android, Windows, Mac, Linux, Server & The Web all from the same code."

Reading about Emscripten: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emscripten

"Emscripten allows applications and libraries written in C or C++ to be compiled ahead of time and run efficiently in web browsers, typically at speeds comparable to or faster than interpreted or dynamically compiled JavaScript. With the more recent development of the WebAssembly System Interface (WASI)[5] and WebAssembly runtimes such as Node.js, Wasmtime,[6] and Wasmer,[7] Emscripten can also be used to compile to WebAssembly for execution in non-Web embeddings as well."

Tells me nothing that has any obvious connexion with LiveCode . . .

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Re: Not working as expected?

Post by FourthWorld » Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:04 pm

That was step 1. Now you're ready for step 2.
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richmond62
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Re: Not working as expected?

Post by richmond62 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:19 pm

If by "step 1" you mean 'read about Emscripten', I'm up to my oxters in mud.

and . . .
2. Study how browsers work, esp. how they differ from the desktop.
Well . . . pause while I reflect on the fact that Hyperscript Markup (erm . . . HTML) is, supposedly derived
from the same roots as LiveCode (HyperCard) . . .

. . . so, would it be unreasonable for a multicard LiveCode stack to be converted into a multipage web-thing when spun off
as an HTML standalone?
3. Adjust your expectations to match what you learn.
That might be what I just did "up there".

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Re: Not working as expected?

Post by FourthWorld » Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:16 pm

Level 3 not yet unlocked. In step 2, start with layout models, then security models, then use cases...
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Re: Not working as expected?

Post by richmond62 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:25 pm

Use cases . . .

Well I, for one, would expect any stack I exported to HTML to be used in much the same way as any
desktop standalone I might produce from the same stack.

There are, after all, many online applications that function via web-browsers that do much the same thing as their desktop equivalents.

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Re: Not working as expected?

Post by FourthWorld » Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:58 pm

Dogs and cats are both quadraped carnivorous mammals that live with humans, often roughly the same size.

If they appear to be the same thing keep looking.

"God is in the details." - Mies van der Rohe
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Re: Not working as expected?

Post by richmond62 » Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:28 am

Sumo Paint: https://www.sumopaint.com/

has both online versions (i.e. the thing functions in a web-browser) and a downloadable version.

The Sumo Paint people, perhaps realizing that there is no obvious advantage of downloading a desktop application (unless you need to work offline)
have been clever enough to build in extra features to the downloadable version.

From my point of view at least, whether I am being chased by a sabre-toothed tiger or its marsupial homologue
makes little difference: I'm going to run.
-
st.jpg
st.jpg (7.56 KiB) Viewed 586 times
Thylacosmilus.jpg
Thylacosmilus.jpg (6.67 KiB) Viewed 586 times
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The underlying composition of the animal that bites my bottom is going to be the least of my worries!

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Re: Not working as expected?

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:16 pm

Was Sumo Paint written in LiveCode? Does it use Emscripten at all? Is the desktop version even written in C++?

Much of my career has involved converting applications from one platform and/or format to another. And much of that conversion work has been between desktop and web.

But of course, to the degree that your own conversions from desktop to web are satisfying, no cautionary tales I've learned from those years of experience would be helpful to you.

Carry on...
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