Rev and the Internet

[Tam123]

Hi,

I have been using rev for a while now to create various programs, the best example of which is a questionnaire. In the past i have used a laptop to get people to complete the questionnaire and then I've used Rev to collect and analyse their responses (much quicker then pencil and paper).

However, i would like to place the programs on the net so that, rather than having to be physically present, they could complete it from home.

Now I am completely clueless as to how to do this in any respect. I've looked at some of Rev's samples but they don't explain how to actually get it on the net as a working questionnaire.

So can anyone give me further information?

Much appreciated!

[Mark]

Dear Tam123,

You can put the standalones on your server for download. What else do you need? How does it work when people are "physically present" and where to you expect to encounter problems when people are no longer physically present?

You could send the information from your standalone to a MySQL database, to a Rev CGI engine, to an e-mail address, and there are many more solutions. What do you have in mind?

Best,

Mark

[Tam123]

Hi,

Generally I would place the stand alone in a folder on my desktop. Once a person had completed the questionnaire it would then create a text file in a folder next to it and save the data (i.e. their responses on the questionnaire) to the text file. I would later collect the text files.

So I'm assuming if they downloaded the questionnaire then the data would save to their hard drive. However I need to have access to it. So I would prefer the program to work like a webpage, such that I give them a web address and they then complete everything online. But I'm not sure then how to collect the data or even how to make it into a webpage.

I'm sure this is a very basic question but I've never used programs this way

Thanks

[Tam123]

I should also say that I would perfer them not to have to download the standalone itself as they may not be very computer literate, just simply go to a website.

Also most ideally the data would be e-mailed to me.

Thanks

[Mark]

Tam123,

"Download the questionnair"

What does that mean? Standalone? Web site? Text file?

Best,

Mark

[Tam123]

Hi,

sorry that means the standalone

[Mark]

Hi Tam123,

Our posts just crossed. So, make a web site and use a good e-mailing feature on your server, such as sendmail, or let a standalone run as a server and have the website send the data to the standalone on a port at which the standalone accepts connections. The standalone can save the data into one or more files.

Best,

Mark

[Tam123]

Great thanks

[deeverd]

Hi,

Just to add a question to this topic, I am now gaining a good degree of proficiency in the basics of Revolution, however, web building is a new arena for myself. Therefore...

Is is possible or even recommended to use Revolution tools to build web pages? I know this might be a ridiculous question, but since I now build my own homemade "PowerPoint" type presentations with Revolution quite easily, I couldn't help thinking that maybe, just maybe it is possible to build websites with Revolution... or would the tools that are available along those lines be too limited? In that case, would it be better to use something like Dreamweaver or the new MS Front Page, or is there a better or cheaper alternative?

Anyway, I am relatively certain that the originator of this posting did not really get her question answered to her satisfaction, despite the kindness of the respondent, whom I have found to be very helpful in the past on many occasions, but since I don't feel any more knowledgeable concerning the answer to her question (which is a quesiton I am also interested in), I am hoping that answers will keep coming to her and to my own questions.

Cheers and all the best, deeverd
P.S. I really, really do appreciate the great advice I receive on this forum.

[BvG]

making websites is a very broad topic.

Using a rev program to create html is not very different from making a text editor. Afterwards one can upload the result using ftp.

To make a dynamic homepage, using rev instead of ruby or perl, one has to use the cgi engine, or make a http server within rev.

If you just want a rev app to have online parts, there's many possibilities. You could load stacks via the net, then upload them back via ftp, or just the data as text file. You can also use rev to communicate with http forms, or other existing protocols, if you know how to interact with them.

Rev can also be used to send and receive mails, or interface existing chat protocols. You could even interact with custom servers created in any language, using your own protocol.

There's probably more I did not think of...

Now, which of those do you want help with?

[deeverd]

Hello BvG and Hopefully Tam if you're out there.

Awesome! Right after I posted my newbie question, I found the resources by Sarah and have downloaded all the Revolution programs and script she has available concerning email, ftp, etc.

In the meantime, before formulating the questions concerning the knowledge I most need, can you suggest any particular websites to visit and explore, which have used mostly Revolution programming to create them?

I'm still at such an early stage of web development that quite honestly, I don't even know what questions to ask yet, but after seeing sample scripts, closely scrutinizing example websites, etc., I'll be in a much better position to actually know what it is that I need to know. So, if I take a couple weeks or so to come back with specific questions, please don't take it as a lack of concern.

Currently, I'm on the homestretch of completing a "revolutionary" Revolution program that can analyze manuscripts that authors cut and paste into the text box in order to receive a huge amount of feedback concerning many writing aspects of their work.

Anyway, I thought it might help you to know what I'm actually doing and will hopefully be putting onto the web in 3 to 4 months (I work full time as a HS teacher plus I go to University at night where I'm working on a PhD in literacy) so I am very limited on time concerning how fast I can accomplish my projects (not to mention being married, having 6 dogs that I rescued, and living on an old gold mining property where something always needs to be fixed). Good thing I gave up sleeping at night to give myself an extra 6 working hours in each day!

Looking forward to seeing some great sample websites that mostly utilize Revolution script to build and operate them. Thank you so very much for your advice and concern.

Cheers, deeverd

[BvG]

In the meantime, before formulating the questions concerning the knowledge I most need, can you suggest any particular websites to visit and explore, which have used mostly Revolution programming to create them?

No.

Because I have made none that still exist. Other people probably have made one, but I do not know which parts of their pages are run by a Rev program. It's just very much work to tell how a homepage has been constructed these days. Again, you're not drilling down what exactly you need, so all I can do is fire into the dark, and hope to kill your particular question.

I think http://www.himalayanacademy.com/ has parts of their website based on Rev, but you should ask Sivakatirswami about that. They do sell/give away Rev based software.

http://fourthworld.com/ makes a Rev based tool to create homepages, and uses it for their own homepage... Or not, I don't know, ask Richard Gaskin.

I do use a slightly modified version of an old stack by Andre Garzia to upload files to my homepage, basically it's an ftp client. But I guess from thin air that that's not what you're after.

My chat is of course using the internet, but it's not a homepage, and maybe you're not interested in that either.

On the other hand, you don't seem to be in need for a website at all, only an application that saves data onto a network, which is of course much simpler to do then making a html site. Regarding that, I'd suggest to make a server available to your customers/students/whoever via a rev program. You only need to get the query from them onto your server, and a way for the server to send data back to the clients. Now... how you do it hugely depends on your specific needs, and available time.

Regarding needs, here's a short list to consider:

• How secure is your environment? Do you trust your clients? Is there incentive to hack the server? Do you need encryption?
• Do you need to use a homepage? This means http, browser, and all the problems and complications that come with those.
• Can you run your own applications on the client side?
• Can you install a server that is accessible for all clients?
• Is there need for peer to peer connections? If yes, how complicated/restricted is the network setup?
• Is there a problem with the amount of data to send, versus the available bandwidth?
• And most importantly: Is there existing technology that you can buy for less then you need to rebuild it from scratch using rev? Even parts that can be acquired might reduce your cost investment considerably. (Consider open source/freeware versus your hourly income)
• All the thousand things I forgot.

[Mark]

HiDeeverd,

Surely, I could show you lots of websites that I created with HyperCard or Revolution. One is at http://www.runrev.info .

However, I think you are starting this from the wrong angle. Don't start with the facts that you have Revolution, a lot of components that might do internet-related things, and perhaps even a server.

You should start asking yourself what you want to accomplish. Then tell us what you want and we can help you to consider the available options to achieve that.

You see, if you really just wanted to create a web site and nothing more, why didn't you simply take a good HTML editor to make it? Apparently, you want more than that, or maybe not and then you really should consider which tool is the right one for this task.

Best,

Mark

[FourthWorld]

...can you suggest any particular websites to visit and explore, which have used mostly Revolution programming to create them?

These are static pages generated by our Rev-based product, WebMerge:
http://www.fourthworld.com/products/web ... llery.html

For dynamically-generated pages, you'll want to check out Andre Garzia's toolkit:
http://www.andregarzia.com/RevOnRockets/

[deeverd]

Regarding needs, here's a short list to consider:

How secure is your environment? Do you trust your clients? Is there incentive to hack the server? Do you need encryption?

Do you need to use a homepage? This means http, browser, and all the problems and complications that come with those.

Can you run your own applications on the client side?

Can you install a server that is accessible for all clients?

Is there need for peer to peer connections? If yes, how complicated/restricted is the network setup?

Is there a problem with the amount of data to send, versus the available bandwidth?

And most importantly: Is there existing technology that you can buy for less then you need to rebuild it from scratch using rev? Even parts that can be acquired might reduce your cost investment considerably. (Consider open source/freeware versus your hourly income)

All the thousand things I forgot.

Hi and Thanks Heaps,

Ok, wow, I am definitely overwhelmed... but in a good way. Apologies for the delay in responding to everyone's help. During the school year (teaching by day, university by night) often many days go by before I can even look at my email.

First, I've just finished looking at some tremendous resources that you guys led me to, such as the RevHTTP.zip on Andre's website. Also on that website under the "Blog" pages, I found a lot of great advice and website links and tools that will most likely do me a world of good, as well as anyone else who is new to web building. Below is the URL address that will take anyone to these lists of resources:

http://www.andregarzia.com/blog/files/c ... ution.html

One needs to scroll about halfway down that blog page to get to the section titled, "Cool Web Resources for Runtime Revolution developers." It's worth its weight in gold and platinum.

Now, to answer some of the questions asked of me:

Yes, I will definitely need a secure environment, and yes, there is incentive for people to want to hack into it, since my program will most likely receive a lot of traffic from working writers and would-be (future) writers around the world who want and need instant feedback on their manuscripts by my automated program. The whole reason I am putting this program on the web is so that nobody needs to worry about being able to afford it (obviously donations via PenPal will be gladly accepted) and by having a lot of visitors, I hope to generate enough money through affiliates to afford to be able to keep offering authors more and more resources to help them write books, and articles, and short stories, etc. Anyway, my program is quite unique, so I definitely need to protect it.

Also of concern, security wise, is the fact that anybody will be able to visit the website and cut & paste their manuscript into it so that they can receive feedback. Since many of these users will most likely not have registered their copyrights officially, I certainly want to make sure that hackers cannot steal or compromise their manuscripts while using my program.

I'm assuming that I'll need a homepage, since I'll need to get a domain name with a specific and memorable address.

I'd also like to create a forum for people who have already protected their writing and would like to share it for human feedback from other users, creating an eWriting Club of sorts, so users can talk to each other and help and encourage each other.

I can't really run my applications on the client side, because the software wouldn't be protected, and if I sold the software on CD's, I'd have to charge the users a reasonable sum of money, which might prevent some deserving people from having access to it.

Bandwidth might be a problem, too, since some manuscripts could easily be a million characters in length, and once writing clubs, agents, submissions editors from publishing houses, students, journalists and working book authors are aware of this web resource and start using it, my site could be using up a lot of space.

The program will generate detailed and lengthy reports concerning many aspects of their writing (not including grammar, since plenty of programs already exist for that purpose). Therefore, I'll need to either be able to generate a personal writing log for them to see on the website itself or have it sent to their eMail address.

It's certainly a big project!

You asked the question whether there is existing technology for me to buy to put this together. After seeing the resources such as WebMerge by Fourth World and the RevOnRockets kit by Andre Garzia, I'm thinking these might be excellent tools for me to use. I certainly don't feel the need to create all the tools myself to deliver the program, I just want to have more time to keep working on the program in order to get it out there as soon as possible. By the way, I was amazed at the reviews I saw concerning WebMerge and the big name clients that are thrilled to use it such as BMI. That is very impressive.

I'm not exactly sure which of those tools I need yet because, I'm almost ashamed to admit it, I have no idea of what the difference is between static pages and dynamically-generated pages, although I will be very quick in researching the difference. Is there a good reason to use both or should a person choose one or the other? From what I've described so far concerning my own website needs, does WebMerge sound like it fits the need? If so, I will be very glad to purchase it right away.

Anyway, before I write a book-length manuscript reply, I think I'll stop at this point. Thanks again to everyone for your very helpful advice. If any of you are coming to the Las Vegas conference and need any tourist advice on Las Vegas, just let me know what you need to know. I live about 65 miles away from Las Vegas but actually teach classes and attend university in Las Vegas, so I know it very well, even better than most people because I am also a former public relations manager for one of the Circus Circus company casinos.

Cheers, deeverd