Future of LC?

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ClipArtGuy
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Re: Future of LC?

Post by ClipArtGuy » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:38 am

capellan wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:16 pm

Just for curiosity, Could someone provide a detailed
explanation of how we could use a 2D physics engine
within Livecode?

Al
I suppose this would depend on how they implemented it. It was apparently feasible enough that they offered it as a stretch goal. I believe what they promised at the time was an implementation of the Box2D physics engine if the stretch goal was met. The stretch goal was met, but the physics engine was kicked to the bottom of the roadmap for a couple years before it dropped off completely.

It's clear that this is not important at all to anybody in this forum and maybe even the LiveCode community at large, but they did collect money specifically for this feature, and then failed to deliver it or even mention it ever again as far as I can tell. I don't think I'm wrong to feel that this should have at least been addressed specifically in an update or blog post as opposed to being quietly dumped with no explanation. This is one of my very few gripes with LiveCode, and as I've already said, I'm quite happy with what we have now. I really don't have anything else to say on the topic. As far as I'm concerned, the community has spoken, and they don't care about 2D physics.

In regards to the original intent of this thread, I will reiterate that I love LiveCode and think/hope it will be around for a long time.

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Re: Future of LC?

Post by richmond62 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:07 am

It's clear that this is not important at all to anybody in this forum and
While not many folk hereabouts may feel the lack of a 2D Physics engine they should be fussed by LiveCode's failure to deliver on fund-raiser promises, and they should seriously consider whether they are prepared to "donate" more money next time the hat comes round.
Last edited by richmond62 on Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bogs
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Re: Future of LC?

Post by bogs » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:32 am

capellan wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:16 pm
Just for curiosity, Could someone provide a detailed
explanation of how we could use a 2D physics engine
within Livecode?
Al, do you mean aside from game programming? Aside from game programming, I can't think of any reasons except for enhancing effects, although a side effect might be faster delivery of graphics intensive applications.

For example, one early timer program I wrote used a launcher with balloons rising and bumping into each other instead of a progress bar to signify the start of the program because I found it more entertaining to look at.
Desktop 1_082.png
Rising bubbles...
Desktop 1_082.png (26.71 KiB) Viewed 798 times
*If* there was a physics engine in place in Lc, that could look different each time it launched, simulating real balloons instead of circles traveling on the same path each time to make it look like they are bumping into each other. I was able to achieve that effect on my own, but it sure would be nice if there had been an easier way to do it that worked faster and smoother :P

For game programming, it would prevent you from having to go outside the environment to use something like Unity or some other pre-built engine, or having to create your own. I'm not able to give a really in-depth dissertation on the topic anymore, but there are plenty of articles around about 2d engines and how to create them (mostly in other languages).

Lastly, rolling your own engine isn't for the faint of heart or the new programmer as they are pretty math intensive, (less of a problem today though with the wide spread tutorials around). For instance, I could no longer write a worth while one myself, although I used to monkey with them way, WAY back in the day.
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bogs
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Re: Future of LC?

Post by bogs » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:46 am

ClipArtGuy wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:38 am
It's clear that this is not important at all to anybody in this forum and maybe even the LiveCode community at large.... As far as I'm concerned, the community has spoken, and they don't care about 2D physics.
Well, I sure wouldn't say that. I used to be extremely interested in mixing game looks with real world applications, and still play in the area on occasion. I think a fast and basic physics simulation engine would be a great addition to round out the IDE, along with a sound subsystem that doesn't require the 3rd party sound players such as has been used over the years (like QT, xanim, mplayer, etc.)

On the flip side of that, I'd be less than forthright in saying I'd get any benefit from it if they released it now, since I don't use any of the newer IDEs. I just don't think I'm all alone in doing that kind of stuff though. Look at some of the things MaxV was doing recently with his tutorials like the breakout tutorial or the worm thing.
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Re: Future of LC?

Post by jacque » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:12 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:07 am
While not many folk hereabouts may feel the lack of a 2D Physics engine they should be fussed by LiveCode's failure to deliver on fund-raiser promises, and they should seriously consider whether they are prepared to "donate" more money next time the hat comes round.
Before complaining it's wise to do a little research. I googled "Box2D in LiveCode" and the first hit has the answer. Scroll down to the comments where Joe asks the same question. In sum, it should be out in 9.1 and they already have a working prototype in-house.

https://livecode.com/livecode-9-0-gm

I have never known LC to reneg on their promises, and they certainty wouldn't do it without explanation. Timelines are frequently off, usually for reasons known to anyone who develops complicated software, but they are honest and open when you ask.

Speculation here frequently turns negative. Don't assume. It's also helpful to keep up with the blog posts where little nuggets of info frequently appear.
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ClipArtGuy
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Re: Future of LC?

Post by ClipArtGuy » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:45 pm

jacque wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:12 pm
Before complaining it's wise to do a little research. I googled "Box2D in LiveCode" and the first hit has the answer. Scroll down to the comments where Joe asks the same question. In sum, it should be out in 9.1 and they already have a working prototype in-house.
I am aware of this comment, and even posted it in a different thread a couple weeks ago. If you feel that a single comment in an unrelated blog post nearly five years after the goal was met is sufficient communication, then perhaps I am asking too much. My gripe is more about the lack of communication than the lack of a 2D physics engine. If it gets added in the next release, great. If not, it seems that it won't matter anyway, because it's not a feature that anybody else is expecting. Since I'm the only one who seems to have an issue with this (or at least am very much in the minority), I'm more than happy to put the whole topic to rest.

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Re: Future of LC?

Post by jacque » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:38 pm

Apologies, I wasn't really thinking of you when I posted. I was quoting Richmond. ;)

Still, I do stand by my comment that if we want answers, it's better to ask directly than to speculate. Speculation always seems to take a negative turn.
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Re: Future of LC?

Post by capellan » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:39 pm

bogs wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:46 am
Look at some of the things MaxV was doing recently with his tutorials like the breakout tutorial or the worm thing.
Oh, I have not seen these tutorials! Thanks a lot for remember them:
http://livecodeitalia.blogspot.com/2018 ... pochi.html

Where I could find the worm tutorial?

Thanks in advance!

Al

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Re: Future of LC?

Post by bogs » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:44 pm

jacque wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:38 pm
Speculation always seems to take a negative turn.
The future of Livecode?
Lets get ready to RRRRRUUUUMMMMBBBBLLLLEEEE !!

...And then take a deep breath and count to 10. Thank you :twisted:
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Re: Future of LC?

Post by capellan » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:53 pm

jacque wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:38 pm
Still, I do stand by my comment that if we want answers, it's better to ask directly than to speculate. Speculation always seems to take a negative turn.
Thanks a lot Jacque for posting this link.
Interesting enough, in April 2018
Ali Lloyd wrote:
Thanks to several of the developments in 9.0, we finally have build structure in place to do this in a sensible way – in fact we have a working demo using Chipmunk 2D internally, which we will hopefully be able to clean up and get out in 9.1.
After visiting Chipmunk website, I learned that they too become
Open source and now are MIT Licensed! :o
https://chipmunk-physics.net/

Al
Last edited by capellan on Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bogs
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Re: Future of LC?

Post by bogs » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:55 pm

capellan wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:39 pm
Where I could find the worm tutorial?
Erm, well as far as I know, it hasn't been released yet, but there is a post in the forum about it due to a slight issue he was having where the worm, instead of turning, flew all to pieces :oops:
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Re: Future of LC?

Post by richmond62 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:34 am

I was quoting Richmond.
Well, before you get set in some sort of stereotyped groove, if you read my "moans"
you will see that they ALL come down to lack of communication on LiveCode's half.

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Re: Future of LC?

Post by jacque » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:58 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:34 am
I was quoting Richmond.
Well, before you get set in some sort of stereotyped groove, if you read my "moans"
you will see that they ALL come down to lack of communication on LiveCode's half.
The blog post I linked to explains the work done for LC 9, the roadblocks they had to overcome, and mentions how some of the Kickstarter funds were used to fulfill its goals. I keep up with the blogs in my RSS reader which is where I'd expect most team communications to occur. Not all blogs are from team members but when they do appear they're informative.

The weekly "This week in LiveCode" posts are also of great interest to me because they summarize what the team is doing currently. They don't tell the whole story but there is direction there in the bug fix list. Both the blog and the weekly postings were created as a result of community requests for more open communication.

And don't worry Richmond, you are impossible to stereotype. :)
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Re: Future of LC?

Post by richmond62 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:02 pm

owing to lack of promotion
Well said, that person!

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Re: Future of LC?

Post by FourthWorld » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:15 pm

LC has moved into a regular slot on the TIOBE Index, a good indicator of language popularity that many of its competitors are not on.

So while we see measurable growth, there are always opportunities to do even better.

What engineering tasks would you like to see the team suspend so they can allocate those resources for marketing?

And what specific marketing steps have you found effective in your experience as a software publisher that the company is not yet doing?
Richard Gaskin
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LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

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