setting the focus with keyboard property on a field

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mvillion
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Re: setting the focus with keyboard property on a field

Post by mvillion » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:40 pm

Hi
I do agree with the IDE bug issue.

It 'feels' that the structure is likely to come tumbling down at any moment. The software 'feels' almost amateurish and unsupported as there are so many niggles that just don't quite work. I have had several bugs open for years. Examples.

1. Multiple monitor support. The mouse alignment frequently fail if you have different size monitors and often you lose the top of the window and the tool bars. (Two years or longer now) - Completely repeatable. This is where the mouse action (where you click) does not line up with the actual mouse cursor. I don't know many developers who lives on a single screen. I like many screens as it makes working on code easier (but I could be alone here)

2. Constant crashing with breakpoints. Completely repeatable. (Open Two or more years). There is a sequence where if you press the step over button after a breakpoint is triggered the IDE crashes out. (Can't remember the exact recipe but it is documented)

Many others.
I would vote. 'Please stop with new features for 3 months and stabilize what we have PLEASE.' PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

The instability and bugs make me wonder if the platform is going to be supported as we go forward. It is hard to promote a platform to other developers when it is unstable.

If the software was not so DAMN AWESOME (cross-platform and ability to do everything we can) I would have abandoned it years ago because it feels like it is falling apart.

My vote is to fix what we have and clean up the bug list and methods for reporting bugs. It is difficult to actually help the development when the bug reporting mechanism is clunky and the level of response is so slow. I have largely stopped reporting things because generally they are already known (however it is hard to match them). Kinda sad really. I expect others have done the same. Why bother reporting when nothing happens!

Grrrr
M@

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Re: setting the focus with keyboard property on a field

Post by bogs » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:56 pm

Wow, that is quite a critique about posting. Some points I'd think are questionable, though, might be ~
RobertC wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:58 am
I'm appalled at the number of answers that simply do not address the very clearly stated question: how does one set the focus with keyboard from a script? For example, dunbarx obviously can't read that, but he is not the only one.
When I read the question initially, I didn't think it was all that clear. A lot of the clarity for the reader will be dependent on their work method and perception.

For instance, I tend to work in the IDE as it was in versions of Mc up to v6.x and am almost never in any newer versions other than for testing. I also, as Klaus and Jacque mentioned, have my preferences set to "name of property" for the property inspector labels. Here is the 'clear' question ~
I am trying to set the 'focus with keyboard' property of a field via a script but I cannot find out how.
It is available in the properties but I cannot find it in the dictionary for fields properties.
My interpretation essentially breaks down to -
1. set property through script...
2. the property is already existing, but he sees no listing in the dictionary.

My own conclusion ran along Craig's interpretation, that he wants to set the focus to a field, it might be one or more fields, etc, but I'd hardly call it clear. Why didn't it jump out at me the way it did (apparently) for you ? Well, when I go look at the properties for a field in the inspector, I simply don't see any wording that is close to the description given. See for yourself -
aPic_focusProperty.png
Having some trouble focusing here...
Nor is it listed in the complete list of the properties -
aPic_theFullProps.png
The whole prop and nothing but the prop...
Craig obviously was offering a suggestion, and asking for clarification, I sure don't see that as "wildly missing the point". Once steps were provided to reach mvillion's concern, it was immediately resolvable quite easily.

I'll add that, even if I were a 9.x user, unless I set my preferences exactly as the OP does, I might still have had the same clarity issue since unless I hovered over the description as Jacque mentioned, I still wouldn't see the 'focus with keyboard' label. I have to say, I'm glad diversity and options are available in the IDE to set some things as we prefer for our workflow.

Point 2 would be that what you see as
...well-meaning, fast response that is completely off the mark...
I see as educational opportunities for the uninitiated, especially ME. Many people might not even know there are more than one way to display properties, or that you can hover over them to get the alternate form of display. Those tips I find extremely helpful, and I'm thankful when I encounter them. In this thread, they were a direct result of the flow the responses took.

Lastly, this forum, and all others I have ever been on or have read, are populated with (mostly) users who are willing to contribute their time to give other users information, or socialize, or post something they have come across, or.... the list goes on and on. I find the give and take nature of almost all these responses, even yours and mine here, as welcome.

Forums are not, generally speaking, populated with answer robots that will telepathically jump to the exact correct interpretation of any question with an exact answer. Even support forums run by software can't do that. If that is what you'd expect to find *anywhere*, I'm afraid your in for an awful long wait, but I am glad to be able to tell you how sorry I am for that.

Now I'll kick out my own soapbox from this mini rant, and wish you the best.
Image
Last edited by bogs on Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Image

mvillion
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Re: setting the focus with keyboard property on a field

Post by mvillion » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:59 pm

To be honest, it is the forums which to me are the saving grace of the product.

People are always willing to chirp in with what they have found (or know) and I am always deeply grateful for any person who contributes to the support of the product.

Without the community, the product would be something very different.

I thank everyone who takes the time to answer any queries, even if sometimes it is off-base as even those often provide nuggets of information and clues to the final answers.

8-)

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Re: setting the focus with keyboard property on a field

Post by richmond62 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:14 pm

I would vote. 'Please stop with new features for 3 months and stabilize what we have PLEASE.' PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Funnily enough, I stated much that a couple of years ago and had all sorts of people jump all over me . . .

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Re: setting the focus with keyboard property on a field

Post by dunbarx » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:17 pm

@ Bogs. Thank for the support; that is indeed exactly what I thought, especially since that sort of question comes up regularly.

@mVillion. LC is not perfect. Neither am I. But I do at least see you appreciate the miracle. We can both live with that.

Craig

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Re: setting the focus with keyboard property on a field

Post by richmond62 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:19 pm

Without the community, the product would be something very different.
Without the community I have a feeling that there would be almost no uptake indeed.

The community is the life-blood of LiveCode, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people
are prepared to spend lots of time helping others in the community for little or no reward other than a sense of personal satisfaction.

It is the LiveCode community that prevents me becoming 100% cynical about the human race.

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Re: setting the focus with keyboard property on a field

Post by dunbarx » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:19 pm

Funnily enough, I stated much that a couple of years ago and had all sorts of people jump all over me . . .
But Richmond, you are so lovably jumpable. :wink:

Craig

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Re: setting the focus with keyboard property on a field

Post by jacque » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:16 pm

1. Multiple monitor support. The mouse alignment frequently fail if you have different size monitors and often you lose the top of the window and the tool bars. (Two years or longer now) - Completely repeatable. This is where the mouse action (where you click) does not line up with the actual mouse cursor. I don't know many developers who lives on a single screen. I like many screens as it makes working on code easier (but I could be alone here)
This has been discussed in the past. The fix is to make sure that the tops of the two monitors are level with each other in the system monitor setup. The team fixes bugs based on severity according to several different criteria, and bugs with a workaround have lower priority. That doesn't mean it shouldn't get fixed, only that others may get fixed first.
2. Constant crashing with breakpoints. Completely repeatable. (Open Two or more years). There is a sequence where if you press the step over button after a breakpoint is triggered the IDE crashes out. (Can't remember the exact recipe but it is documented)
This was a major bug that did require immediate attention, though I did not see the issue until recently. It was fixed in LC 9.6 (or maybe 9.5.1, I'd have to look it up.) There were other reports about it along with a lengthy attempt at diagnosis on the mailing list, so your older one may have been missed when the newer ones were merged and addressed. It turned out the problem was understood but very difficult to fix.

If you post the bug numbers I will look.

Like many, I find reporting bugs time consuming and I tend to avoid it if I'm in the middle of busy project. But LC won't know problems exist if there are no reports so it's a trade off. Can you live with or work around the problem, or do you divert your time away from work to report it? I usually split about 50/50. I spent considerable time collecting recipes and crash logs for the breakpoint issue.

EDIT: The breakpoint crasher was fixed in LC 9.0.5 and applied to 9.5 forward. Here is the link to the (long) bug report:
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22130
Last edited by jacque on Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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bogs
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Re: setting the focus with keyboard property on a field

Post by bogs » Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:42 pm

dunbarx wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:17 pm
@ Bogs. Thank for the support; that is indeed exactly what I thought, especially since that sort of question comes up regularly.
Heh, well, as some few of you know, I did (paid) technical support for about a decade. You wouldn't believe the number of blind alleys I have been led down which started with clear and simple questions, such as "Why isn't my internet working?"

On the face of it, that would seem to be a pretty clear question with an easy answer, until you find out they are not talking about their internet but, rather, why their monitor doesn't turn on. After all, it always did before. Or that they are talking about their VPN not connecting when they do, in fact, have internet. Or maybe even why their tv isn't showing a picture (because cable companies for some stupid reason have their commercials make it look like the internet is powering their tv) :roll:

True story (no names or locations will be given):
Customer calls in, says their internet is out, would like to know when they could expect it back on. During the call, it was determined that their router had failed. This part of the call took less than 3 minutes. The discussion that followed took considerably longer, but in brief, went like this -
Customer "Do routers normally fail like this?"
Me "Router failure can depend on many things, such as the age of the equipment, the stability of the power source, the quality of the router, etc..."
Customer "But the internet connection stopped all of a sudden, is that normal?"
Me "Um, your router appears to be non functional, therefore your connection would terminate at the point of the router ceasing to work."
Customer "Well, I understand it would stop working, but I thought it should stop working slowly. After all, if a planes engines stop functioning, it doesn't come to an immediate stop, it keeps going forward a little while."
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: <--- actual look on my face...
Me "Ahhh. What you are thinking of is kinetic energy, which is mechanical in nature. The router, on the other hand, is more like your light bulb, in that when it stops functioning due to failure, that stop is immediate, as if you turned off the switch."

The customer kept this back and forth going for the next 15 minutes, coming up with different examples of mechanical vs. electrical stoppages. It really taxed my ability to couch the same answer in different ways. To this day, I'm still not positive they ever completely understood the difference Image

I consider a clear and simple question an extreme rarity in real life. **When was the last time you saw a question posted that ran along these lines~
I am using Lc (version #) on (OS being used), when I (task here), I get (result here). The steps I followed were (1 to 7 steps listed in order). Even in the quality DB, you don't see that often enough :P

** - I am guilty of the same, I am not preaching but merely pointing out an example :D
Image

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Re: setting the focus with keyboard property on a field

Post by FourthWorld » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:17 pm

mvillion wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:40 pm
1. Multiple monitor support. The mouse alignment frequently fail if you have different size monitors and often you lose the top of the window and the tool bars. (Two years or longer now) - Completely repeatable. This is where the mouse action (where you click) does not line up with the actual mouse cursor. I don't know many developers who lives on a single screen. I like many screens as it makes working on code easier (but I could be alone here)
The team is quite interested in fixing this, but so far although a few of us have seen this on some platforms none of us have been able to come up with a recipe for reproducing it. If you come up with a recipe please let me know. As soon as I do I'll file a but report, but it may be a while since I haven't seen the issue since I moved to v9.6.
2. Constant crashing with breakpoints. Completely repeatable. (Open Two or more years). There is a sequence where if you press the step over button after a breakpoint is triggered the IDE crashes out. (Can't remember the exact recipe but it is documented)
Which version are you using? Some breakpoint issues were resolved in recent versions, so if you're not using the most recent you (9.6dp2) you may find it rewarding to do so.
Richard Gaskin
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LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
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Re: setting the focus with keyboard property on a field

Post by dunbarx » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:23 am

This has been discussed in the past.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33610&p=187670&hili ... or#p187670
The fix is to make sure that the tops of the two monitors are level with each other in the system monitor setup.
To recap, I use a 32" monitor turned on its side that is only used to display the SE. Think super-portrait. Wonderful.

But physically, I could never align the top of that monitor to my main iMac screen. Instead, I set the topLeft of the SE to fit. I only mention this because others may also have situations where fiddling with the monitor settings is not practical, nor even pertinent.

Craig

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