Dispute (temporary topic)

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Klaus
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Re: Neural Network

Post by Klaus » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:32 am

karmacomposer wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:04 am
Klaus,
I have received no emails from you.
we traded a LOT of mails last year, please take another look.
Example 1:
Am 03.04.2019 um 20:12 schrieb Mike Felker <mike@world-class-multimedia.com>:
I'll ask Steve if he can send $50
I am working on demos. Once done, we can finally start selling and making money.

Mike

On April 3, 2019 1:59:19 PM Klaus major-k <klaus@major-k.de> wrote:
Hi Mike,

Can't you at least pay a little money, so I can see your good will?
Maybe 50 bucks for a start? That will surely extend my patience!
I really need the money.

not possible? Or not wanted?
Still open for proposals.
Example 2:
Am 10.12.2018 um 23:11 schrieb Klaus major-k <klaus@major-k.de>:

Mike,

Am 10.12.2018 um 22:50 schrieb mike@world-class-multimedia.com:

Klaus,

Steve told me he will get you most or all of the last payment this week.
oh, please, you promised to pay the remaining money in one piece!

I had already split my bills for you and accepted partly payment more than
six weeks ago for invoices I had sent you more than three months ago.
Mike

Klaus
Whatever, I am still waiting for a proposal from your side.
karmacomposer wrote:
Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:04 am
Klaus,
Oh, and we paid you plenty of money before it ran out. Don't make it seem like we paid you nothing.
Just the last $400 were in question and debate.

Mike
I, think this is a very lame and poor argument!

If one has read my postings carefully, one will notice that I am "only" complainig about the remaining 400 bucks.
I never said you do not pay in general!

You have my mailaddress and I am STILL open for proposals, so please send me a proposal how and when you want to pay me some money.

karmacomposer
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Re: Neural Network

Post by karmacomposer » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:26 pm

Klaus,

I meant recently.

My absence from Livecode was because we chose another language to create the system with, only to find out it was not as good a choice as Livecode, so we are back.

I gave you my email address in this set of replies and to date, I have received no emails from you at that address. Only replies here.

I am trying to make this private.

Klaus
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Re: Neural Network

Post by Klaus » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:27 pm

I've sent you a mail today...

Klaus
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Re: Neural Network

Post by Klaus » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:21 pm

FYI:
1. Mr. Felker did not mail me out of his own free will, I had to write a mail first!?
Not a the best start after all the postings here in this forum.

Here my mail:
I am still open for proposals and will accept deferred payment
and am even willing to lower the outstanding sum, but please
show a sign of good will and make a serious offer.
2. I was not surprised to read nothing but whining how bad the times are for him and
his family and finally the usual last sentence I had to read in all of his earlier mails since last year:
...
So, my good faith offer is that when we are paid by a client, I will be able to pay you and not one second sooner.

That's all I can offer.
...
I'll leave this uncommented.

bogs
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Re: Neural Network

Post by bogs » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:25 pm

I find it interesting that your being paid should hinge on someone else's deal, of which you had no part.

I know you don't know "Pop-eye" from previous conversations we've had, but it sounds an awful lot like "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today...", but Tuesday somehow never comes up on the calendar.
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richmond62
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Re: Neural Network

Post by richmond62 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:46 pm

This is a bit like a GANTT chart: deliverables depending on other ones.

I cannot pay the landlord who owns the building where my EFL school is if the parents of the children I teach don't pay me.

Nothing very complicated about that.

bogs
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Re: Neural Network

Post by bogs » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:17 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:46 pm
I cannot pay the landlord who owns the building where my EFL school is if the parents of the children I teach don't pay me.
Just out of curiosity, does that fly with your landlord? Your name is the one on the lease, not each and every parent whose children your teaching.

To me, it sounds a lot more like a budgeting issue, it should not be Klaus's responsibility to check on whether the person who contracted his work gets paid by the ultimate client, and I am sure that the party who should be paying his bills is probably not going without to get them paid.
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richmond62
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Re: Neural Network

Post by richmond62 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:27 am

does that fly with your landlord?
Well, as my landlord is a large, fat slob he doesn't fly at all. :D

Seriously: I always make sure that I have 6 months rent ahead in my bank account!

Why?

Well, Yes, the name on the rental agreement is that of my Company.

And, also because I don't like owing anyone money.
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Screen Shot 2019-12-05 at 9.31.12 AM.png

bogs
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Re: Neural Network

Post by bogs » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:45 am

And therein lies the difference, you budget correctly for your (hopefully) continued success and pay your debts. Doing this for a long time would probably have your landlord in a position to cut you some slack *if* some hard times hit your budget, because he would realize you are a long time solid positive. That is one situation.

On the other hand, if you order 20 pizzas, but only had enough money for the first 3 in the bank, you know your over your head going in. Placing that on the pizza parlor isn't the right way to expect beneficial or shared responsibility or even good feelings.

This guy ordered something he didn't have money for, and expects Pizza Parlor Klaus to take the hit for his bad decisions, instead of putting on their adult pants and making the problem right.
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golife
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Re: Neural Network

Post by golife » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:02 pm

Honestly, I am confused about the discussion under the subject "Neural Networks". Does it mean that "neural networks" means discussions about payment disputes between board members? Can this discussion be moved to a more appropriate place/section?

If there must be such discussion then I suggest creating a developer market place with a pay section and a moderator who will act also as intermediary for disputes, even as the clearing house for money. There are other sites with sophisticated systems to order services and handle the money transfers between client and supplier.

General Principle, not knowing this specific case: If I order development then I pay by hour or a fixed rate for deliverables. If I can not pay as a client then I have to file for bankruptcy or negotiate with the supplier. That should not happen first place. The duty for payment can not be made dependent on third parties paying to the client unless clearly expressed in a signed contract.

I hope this discussion moves to another place.

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Re: Neural Network

Post by richmond62 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:49 pm

This started as a discussion about Neural Networks, but for various reasons
wandered off on a tangent about contracts, payments and forward planning.

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Re: Neural Network

Post by richmond62 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:56 pm

I pay by hour or a fixed rate for deliverables.
I would never pay by the hour for programming as it is a notoriously difficult
thing to estimate as to how long something will take to achieve (and, does
the 3 hours soaking in a hot bath, drinking red wine and listening to music
by Haydn to "get" the vital spark to fix the latest routine count as development
time or not - and how, anyway, are you going to know if I was crunching away
at one of my computers or slobbing around in the bath).

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Re: Neural Network

Post by FourthWorld » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:36 pm

golife wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:02 pm
Honestly, I am confused about the discussion under the subject "Neural Networks". Does it mean that "neural networks" means discussions about payment disputes between board members? Can this discussion be moved to a more appropriate place/section?
Thank you. Agreed. I had hoped this tangent would be short-lived, but like so many otherwise-useful threads here the tangents keep growing, the original thread is lost, with more off-topic posts from even those who've noted how far off-topic it is.

I generally avoid removing posts or restricting accounts, so perhaps the best moderator action here is to move the posts to a new thread in the Market Place, as you suggested.

What would be a fair and useful title for the new thread?
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

richmond62
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Re: Neural Network

Post by richmond62 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:52 pm

Off-topic does not necessarily mean either pointless or uninformative.

Klaus
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Re: Neural Network

Post by Klaus » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:20 pm

Hi Richard,
FourthWorld wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:36 pm
I generally avoid removing posts or restricting accounts, so perhaps the best moderator action here is to move the posts to a new thread in the Market Place, as you suggested.
mabe you can SPLIT the thread and leave the original "Neural Network" in its place?
I have no idea how to SPLIT a thread and am afraid I will wreck everything when I try. :oops:

Thank you!


Best

Klaus

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