Critical mass

Want to talk about something that isn't covered by another category?

Moderators: Klaus, FourthWorld, heatherlaine, robinmiller, kevinmiller

How to reach the critical mass?

Poll ended at Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:21 pm

More videos
0
No votes
Promotion on journals
0
No votes
Promotion on blogs
1
5%
Promotion on social networks (Facebook, G+, etc.)
1
5%
Interview videos
0
No votes
More examples
7
37%
A better homepage
2
11%
Success stories
0
No votes
No action, Livecode is well known
0
No votes
Other...
8
42%
 
Total votes: 19

MaxV
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Critical mass

Post by MaxV » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:21 pm

Hi,
I'm in love with Livecode, I can realize anytihnig, but too many people don't know it.
What do you suggest to promote Livecode?
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Re: Critical mass

Post by FourthWorld » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:25 pm

I put "Other": The #1 request I hear from people is for a more comprehensive gallery of apps built with LC.
Richard Gaskin
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George129
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Re: Critical mass

Post by George129 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:45 pm

I put "Other" as well: I would start with improving the community forum experience. It seems a little strange to me that Livecode is a platform for developing mobile apps, yet there is no good way to participate in this this forum from a mobile device. Implement a mobile theme, add support for Tapatalk, do something to increase engagement and improve the experience on mobile devices.

SparkOut
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Re: Critical mass

Post by SparkOut » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:55 pm

"Other"
What Richard said.

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Re: Critical mass

Post by thatkeith » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:16 pm

I put "Social Media", but I think it's also critically important to:

– Provide a comprehensive set of example stacks (the current selection seems a bit spotty)
– Push for more coverage in traditional print media as well as online blogs
– Showcase cool LC-made apps
– Provide examples of how to recreate things – simply rather than with in-depth and complex code – that are in current public awareness. For example, Flappy Birds. (Not only would this help with SEO, it should also spark more imaginations.)
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amthonyblack
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Re: Critical mass

Post by amthonyblack » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:49 am

FourthWorld wrote:I put "Other": The #1 request I hear from people is for a more comprehensive gallery of apps built with LC.

As one of the people Richard has heard it from I concur. Everyone can say how great Livecode is and how easy etc but as person with money burning a hole in my pocket considering the school coming up next month nothing stops me more than seeing a technology that is two decades old and no one has built anything impressive I can see with it.

You all say it is so easy and so powerful and you can jump over tall buildings with a single bound and then you look for something built on it and you point to a pathetic collection of small apps on the 1001 livceode site.

What could do livecode server more that to see it with a multiuser script (even a forum)that people are using or would want to use?
What could do it better on mobile than see a polished modern looking game?
What about a nice windows program with wide appeal? Even XOJO has a movie script program.

Give people something to say - WOw I can make that? Because right now I see nothing impressive. Not only do som of these apps look like they were built by kids - Some WERE built by kids.

Take a step back and view Livecode as new person would such as myself. talk is cheap. I want to see it in action and don't give into fanboyism and say you can do anything with it and then can't show it. yes technically you could use tinfoil and make an antenna but you would have to stand behind the TV with one hand in the air and stand in certain ways to get it done

People who ask these things and want to see real stuff are not your enemies nor are they all trolls they are prospective users but some of you are so fanboyish you get angry and you lock threads just because of frank questions.

From The company side don't advertise things that don't work. Even having one of my question threads closed rudely I still tried out onrev only to find the debugger does not work and is well known not to work. Critical mass will be achieved when (and if) great wide appeal applications are built with it Not by talking it up or over advertising beyond where things really are.

All that and I'd still fork over my money and be an advocate if I saw anything more than a utility or less than commercially polished app done in livecode.

richmond62
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Re: Critical mass

Post by richmond62 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:34 am


Mark
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Re: Critical mass

Post by Mark » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:35 am

Hi everyone,

Richmond, in reply to your "fairly offensive" message on the mailing list, Amthonyblack's reply is definitely not nice, but I don't think it is fairly offensive. Perhaps it is a little offensive, but the guy is a little aggravated, so I think he may be forgiven.

He does state something very important, though. Compared to websites of competitors, RunRev's websites are very, very difficult to navigate. Amthonyblack seems to think that RevOnline is the only source of user samples, but there are many, many more. RunRev could make it much more easy to find things on their websites. Thatkeith's message indicates the same, as all the items on his wish list are available somewhere, but they're very hard to find --there may be no Flappy Bird, but there are the Sheeps game and Galactic Gauntlet.

I believe the following sections should be found with just one click at http://runrev.com as well as http://livecode.com and should be available without registration:
  • a direct download of a Windows or Linux executable or an OSX image containing the LiveCode Community installer, depending on visitor's operating system
  • examples of really cool stacks that have been created by the community
  • examples of really cool and expensive commercial apps and projects by big corporate companies
  • an explanation of all the licensing stuff
  • all the really cool resources, including tutorial sites, the scripting conferences stacks and books
  • RunRev's commercial tutorials, including Livecode university, which should be available for free
  • a long list of developers and consultants, who should be able to register for free or a link to a website with such a link
  • Like Me on Facebook and Follow Me on Twitter buttons
It is absolutely wrong (just to use non-offensive words) that one gets two red crosses if one presses the Download Community Edition button on the homepage. This makes a very negative impression on people and it is annoying when I install LiveCode for a customer, a potential new member of the community. People don't want to have to wait for an e-mail to arrive or find out that they can't download after entering a fake address. People want to download the software and get started right-away. Also, when customers, portential new members of the LiveCode community, see me install LiveCode for them, they always frown a little when I search for the download address in my bookmarks, type it in the address bar of their browser and then download LiveCode, instead of downloading it directly from RunRev's website. This makes them feel awkward about LiveCode and it makes me feel embarrassed.

Another big issue is the search feature of the website. If I enter "cool stuff" in the search field, I get two results. One result links to http://runrev.com and the other to a very old item on the mailing list, titled "license issues". You don't want to see this when you search for "cool stuff".

Yes, really, it looks like RunRev does everything to hide all the great stuff from new, potential users and that's just plain wrong. Therefore, I'm choosing "a better homepage".

Kind regards,

Mark
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MaxV
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Re: Critical mass

Post by MaxV » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:29 pm

I'm glad to see that I'm not alone feeling the Livecode site is a maze. I tried to show the livecode homepage to a couple of friends and after reading the homepage they said me: "What is it?" :shock:
Another one though that it was a Tcl/tk clone... :shock:
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Re: Critical mass

Post by bn » Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:49 pm


thatkeith
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Re: Critical mass

Post by thatkeith » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:12 pm

Some *very* useful comments, ending with
Mark wrote:"a better homepage"
Definitely. For all the reasons given.
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amthonyblack
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Re: Critical mass

Post by amthonyblack » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:58 pm

Mark wrote:Hi everyone,

Richmond, in reply to your "fairly offensive" message on the mailing list, Amthonyblack's reply is definitely not nice, but I don't think it is fairly offensive. Perhaps it is a little offensive, but the guy is a little aggravated, so I think he may be forgiven.
HI mark....I will grant that talking about having a thread locked by a forum mod is not something looked on very nicely on many a board but beyond that I cant think of anything else in my post that I should be "forgiven" for (with no offense or snarkiness to you whatsoever). this is what i was referring to when I mentioned fanboyism (common term used of aggressive fans of almost any programming language or technology). there is too much defensiveness when anyone questions the viability of Livecode. there is no language or ide that does not have challenging questions posed to it especially not one heavily marketed and in its youth stage in terms of popular adoption. This is thread is about critical mass so you would think that real issues affecting how people view the platform would be welcome.

Why should any of that be "fairly offensive"? I mentioned no ones mom or called anyone names. As a new person looking into a new (to them) language when people respond that way you wonder if the communities recommendation and reviews can be trusted because perhaps they are just too emotionally attached to the software to give unbiased reviews.

Thanks for understanding a certain amount of aggravation. Its not underserving. Onrev to this day never set up my site and has not only not given the promised refund but continues to bill me for a site that does not work (not even FTP). Its not a topic for discussion here but perhaps it will indicate I am not some sniper that is not legitimately seeking to use the platform. The point that does relate is that Their onrev debugger is advertised and yet there are threads on this forum that indicate that it doesn't work and is known not to work. Sorry if this also offends but it gives the impression of a marketing machine over substance.

The other issue why people such as myself (and I suppose even more for seasoned programmers) want to see a range of what it can do is because Livecode uses some conventions that are not readily transferable to other languages. Investing in understanding stacks and even some of the syntax is not somethng you will take and apply to other languages so you want t know okay since this isn't transferable to other languages (even conceptually) is it worth that investment to learn
"[e. Amthonyblack seems to think that RevOnline is the only source of user samples"
I've searched high and low. I have told a few people that I WANT livecode to be in my tool kit because as a relatively new programmer I like the language but pointing out that the examples are few and far between and the questions that causes new people to ask about the software seems to deeply offend members of the community and thats not a good sign. it gives the impression that its being hyped by the fan base. that s not an accusation thats an observation because I have no idea whatsoever if the lack of examples of it are really a result of its inabilities or that people have just not gotten around to doing a lot of work in it (although thats where sorry the age of the platform raises some questions).

anyway as to critical masss. Alll points in this thread are good but a wow gallery will sweep all of them away and people will jump through all kinds of hoops regardless

amthonyblack
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Re: Critical mass

Post by amthonyblack » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:02 pm

bn wrote:Some commercial apps made with Livecode

http://www.bluemangolearning.com/products/
http://canelasoftware.com/
http://www.rotundasoftware.com/

Kind regards
Bernd
Thanks BN. I have seen all but the last one which I will look into. I m trying as hard as I can to justify to myself joining the Live code school next month :)

IF there are any "Secret" examples please also let me know. it really is the number one thing for critical mass. Excite people's imagination and all the other stuff melts away.

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Re: Critical mass

Post by Klaus » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:16 pm

Hi amthonyblack,

here some of my (not very exiting, but working) contract work.
Most was/is under NDA, but not all :D
http://major-k.de/refs.html


Best

Klaus

Mark
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Re: Critical mass

Post by Mark » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:28 pm

Amthonyblack,

I'm not entirely sure what other people consider offensive, but I don't think it was the mention of a closed thread :-)

I agree that there is too much defensiveness from certain people when LiveCode is criticised. Rather than defend LC, one should look at where improvements are necessary.

Kind regards,

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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