source code for royalty-free standalone

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trailboss
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source code for royalty-free standalone

Post by trailboss » Wed May 08, 2013 11:15 pm

I have been advised that I must make my source code available to sell a royalty-free standalone. I am supposed to include a link within your app (in the about
box or a similar place) which goes to the full source files for the app.

However, I don't know where my source code is or how to get it and make it available. They mean to have a stack open with a field with the code in it? I'm a little clueless.

Thanks,

Tom

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Re: source code for royalty-free standalone

Post by jmburnod » Wed May 08, 2013 11:51 pm

Hi Tom,
Why not a copy of the stack ? The user could test your scripts directly and see how you proceed.
However, you have to build differently paths of external resources for stack and standalone.
Best regards
Jean-Marc

trailboss
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Re: source code for royalty-free standalone

Post by trailboss » Thu May 09, 2013 6:09 pm

Yes, thanks for reminding me about external resources and junk. If someone has the standalone, they won't be able to see the code. Only someone with the LiveCode program will be able to see that, correct? I'm not sure how to include the stack. Will it be one of those stacks that you add as a substack and click the "move substacks into individual stack files" button?

Are there some sample stacks or standalones available where I can see different strategies to do this?

Thanks,

Tom

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Re: source code for royalty-free standalone

Post by jmburnod » Fri May 10, 2013 2:33 pm

Hi Tom,
Sorry i don't know stack example for that but it is a very interesting point
I think you're right. Only someone with the LiveCode program will be able to see that
Best regards
Jean-Marc

trailboss
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Re: source code for royalty-free standalone

Post by trailboss » Wed May 22, 2013 5:00 pm

Another issue is what rights you are giving up by making the source code public. People can do what they want with my ham-and-egg coding. Why should I care? However, if I include the stack in an application that I sell, does this give all and sundry the right to make their own standalones and happily sell them? The idea for the app and the copyrighted material in it I assume are protected, but I don't really know this. How can one know what rights one is actually relinquishing?

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Re: source code for royalty-free standalone

Post by wsamples » Wed May 22, 2013 6:11 pm

Technically you don't give up any rights by simply making the code visible. You can see my house but I still own it and you can't live there or even enter without my permission. You certainly can't come in and make yourself fat by eating the food in my refrigerator unless I agree to allow it, even though all those things are visible. Rights have to be explicitly assigned or transferred, they can't merely be taken or assumed simply because it is possible. Another example: You can read a book but you can't legally put your name on it as the author or the publisher, even though you've got the thing in your hands, can put your name on your copy to signify a certain kind of ownership, and there is nothing to physically prevent you from duplicating it. Those rights belong to other people. The legal rights of authorship are automatically born with every piece of work which falls within a protected class. The nature of "rights" is that they are yours and cannot be taken from you. However, the license used by LiveCode Community Edition requires that you give many of them away with the software so that everyone who uses it has essentially the same use and distribution rights as you do.

What exactly do you mean by "royalty-free"?

Open source and free software is not a monolithic entity with a single or simple set of rules. You might benefit from researching it a little. If you are using LiveCode Community Edition, then you cannot legally make any effort to prevent someone from using your source code for their own development, including commercial development, provided they comply with the terms of the version of the GPL which LiveCode uses. You are required to distribute your own apps using that same or a compatible license. It can get tricky if you want to include third-party code which may be open source and "free" but does not allow, for example, commercial use.

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/quick-guide-gplv3.html

JGonz
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Re: source code for royalty-free standalone

Post by JGonz » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:11 pm

Hi,

any new wisdom found regarding this? (that I missed ...)

Assuming I made a nice, shiny StandAlone, and want to publish it using GPL V3. (I don't sell the app itself, I sell the service making it available, customizing it, delivering updates etc.)

So what's to do? I assume:
  • I link to the GPL text, in About and ReadMe.
  • I link to the LiveCode download site, in About and ReadMe.
  • I add the LC "Engine license.txt" and "IDE license.txt" (that contain the link to the github repository for LC itself).
  • I add a zipped version of the folder with all stack(s) and resources that I used to make the SA from, to the installed package.
And then - I hope that I'm on the right side. Because I have no idea if I'm GPL V3 savvy yet ;-)
As I understand the GPL it's this paragraph that suits:
6. Conveying Non-Source Forms.

You may convey a covered work in object code form under the terms
of sections 4 and 5, provided that you also convey the
machine-readable Corresponding Source under the terms of this License,
in one of these ways [...]
Wouldn't it be nice if there'd be a designated page from RunRev, containing all the required links (for LC), so that we could just point there? Basically only having our own license + "object code" to add this way, with 1 link to the "corresponding source"?

Or am I wrong here?

Happy coding!

user#606
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Re: source code for royalty-free standalone

Post by user#606 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:18 am

Two thoughts spring to mind when discussing the provision of the source code.
1/ If you think your code is going to be of benefit to a competitor or similar, pay up and buy the non-community version. That way you do not have to provide the code.
2/ you can provide the code, but you do not have to make it easy to find/see/use.

With regard to providing the code, put a reference in your standalone, under "About" Phone (your contact number) or email me for the code.
At least you will stand some chance of assessing the risk of providing it. In my experience, if the user has to make the effort to contact you, they are less likely to expose their intentions.

Another thought. A book has implied copyright as a minimum. The contents are a specific and to some extent, a unique combination of characters, words etc forming sentences and paragraphs. The unique element that is copyright. I see code in the same way. If your code is a novel way of achieving a very limited and specific function, to copy it is a breach of your copyright. State it as such in your code. As against, you did not know how to achieve the function yourself, so you looked and copied it, but other coders do it that way all the time.

Apple and Samsung have as you know, fought legal battles over the similarity of an interface, a few icons even. If there is big money involved, then and only then is it worth worrying about copyright.

JGonz
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Re: source code for royalty-free standalone

Post by JGonz » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:41 am

Hi,

well, I'm happy with the OSS approach, I'm not in fear of someone "stealing" my code - after all, maybe I'd even see this as an honor, someone finding my work this valuable ;-)
I'm usually writing very customer-tailored things, more or less small applications that cure the shortcomings of those big office tools. And since such requires a lot of interaction with my customers, I actually get my money for the time I spend (the service), not for a special piece of software (the code).

While I'm well aware that this approach doesn't fit everywhere I can just recommend it. As long as your code does what's required, is dependent enough of steady updates (required by changing versions of OS'ses & other programs, altered business models etc.), and as long as you're hearing to your customers, realizing possible new ways to help them with your code, you are safe. Your code is what makes them giving you jobs, and thus money.

Back to topic:

What I'm after is a savvy way to meet the requirements of the GPL. I see it as given that I'll release my current projects using it (when done, even if this maybe would require an non-community version), but I want to do it in a rule-compliant manner.

I see it as given that:
  • The code of the ready product will be cleaned (from debug code, comments and such)
  • The ready product will come as a StandAlone.
  • The ready product will come with a text file containing the GPL, as well as all the links to the IDE, to the LC sources, and with a compressed file containing anything I used to make the SA (Stacks, Fonts, etc.).
  • This text file ("ReadMe_and_License.txt") as well as the compressed file can be opened from my "About" button/ menu.
(Hint: It can be priceless to have the sources of the used code at the customers site, especially when there's an old version running, untouched for years, and then finally a nasty bug kicks in ...)

I have to admit that I have a hard time to fully understand the rules of the GPL, especially as a not-native English speaker (and not a lawyer, too ;-) ). So I'd very much appreciate if there'd be a guideline how to do it correctly. Maybe, with the help of those of us better informed about such problems, and maybe even with a bit of help of RunRev, this could be achieved here?

So that all of us little coders out there could happily drown the universe with our GPL licensed StandAlones, without fear nor worry?

Have a good time, and happy coding!

amsterfrank
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Re: source code for royalty-free standalone

Post by amsterfrank » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:56 am

Hello all,
I'm pretty new to LiveCode, allthough been following things for years here. I am an old Director Lingo programmer, still wanting to build apps for different devices using LiveCode. Forgive me this simple text and question, hoping for some simple answers..

Do I understand this topic ( first post ) correct that, if I want to build close-source apps (with the commercial version of livecode) and sell these apps on iStore and gPlay, I will have/need to publish all my source code ?? If I don't want to do that does this mean I need a "none-royalty-free standalone" ? Or am I just not understanding this topic ( not being a lawyer thankgod and not understanding too much about all those license-texts ).

This is about informing myself for now. As an old Lingo/Hypertalk programmer Livecode seems the logic step. (Since stupid Adobe has killed Director). But I do want to go commercial with apps. Meaning that I don't want to earn money with services, but with actually selling livecode-built-apps in the iStore (without showing other people my source nor how I built things). If this isn't possible, I guess I have to look for other devtools than Livecode, right ?

TIA, cheers from Amsterdam
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Re: source code for royalty-free standalone

Post by BvG » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:59 am

amsterfrank wrote:Do I understand this topic ( first post ) correct that, if I want to build close-source apps (with the commercial version of livecode) and sell these apps on iStore and gPlay, I will have/need to publish all my source code ?? If I don't want to do that does this mean I need a "none-royalty-free standalone" ? Or am I just not understanding this topic ( not being a lawyer thankgod and not understanding too much about all those license-texts ).
The comments and hints in this topic all relate and target the open source version of LC. The commercial version is therefore not at all relevant :)

In other words, when you buy a license of LC, and make an app with it, you can do with the source code whatever you want, no further requirements.
Various teststacks and stuff:
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