Can I move from Supercard?

Want to move your code and projects to LiveCode but don't know where to start?

Moderators: Klaus, FourthWorld, heatherlaine, robinmiller

rpitcairn
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Sedona, AZ
Contact:

Can I move from Supercard?

Post by rpitcairn » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:16 pm

I have projects in Supercard and no experience at all with Revolution. How difficult would it be to make the conversion? Is the language for Rev. similar to SC? Can I more or less use the same scripts?

Thanks,
Richard
Richard Pitcairn, DVM, PhD

RRobert
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:20 pm

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by RRobert » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:54 pm

In one word. Yes.

The language is similar and I bet you could use a lot of your supercard code.

Robert

rpitcairn
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Sedona, AZ
Contact:

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by rpitcairn » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:03 pm

Thanks Robert. My ambition is to make it into an Ap that would run on my iPad. How would you suggest I start? Should I go directly to the RevMobile? Or start with other software they offer?
Richard Pitcairn, DVM, PhD

FourthWorld
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
Posts: 6715
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:05 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:21 pm

Hello Richard -

Good to see you here.

Unfortunately, Apple has defined the use of high-level cross-platform tools in iOS as a criminal act:
http://whydoeseverythingsuck.com/2010/0 ... e-mad.html

See Kevin Miller's response here:
http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/

Rev is great for Mac, Windows, and Linux, though - and soon Android, WinMobile, and other platforms that allow apps to be written in languages other than the four Apple requires for iOS development.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

RRobert
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:20 pm

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by RRobert » Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:11 am

You couldn't create iPhone- or iPad applications with revMobile which you like to make available by the App Store. I would recommend to stick with Objective C, Cocoa Touch and Xcode or HTML+CSS+JS, PhoneGap or NimbleKit and Xcode.

PS: You need to be a member of the iPhone Developer Program in order to deploy your application to the device!

Robert

rpitcairn
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Sedona, AZ
Contact:

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by rpitcairn » Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:15 am

Richard

Well I read the links. I am not sure I fully understand everything as this is not my main work and my knowledge limited. Last couple of days I have been in touch with Heather at Rev. and asking questions about the use of RevMobile. If I got it right, it would be possible (legal?) to create an Ap myself (using this software) and then to put it on my iPad for my own use. Further (and I asked specifically about this) it would seem possible for me to put the application on someone else's iPad or ones that I buy, install, and then sell as a package. She thought it would be legal. Do you have any idea?

I have registered as a developer but have not yet paid the $99.

Richard II
Last edited by rpitcairn on Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Richard Pitcairn, DVM, PhD

rpitcairn
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Sedona, AZ
Contact:

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by rpitcairn » Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:21 am

Robert,
Thanks for the suggestions. My problem is that I have very little knowledge of programming languages and don't really have time to learn them unless they are simple. I had the advantage of learning Hypercard years ago and recently re-activated that interest by getting Supercard and re-learning what that has to offer. I can work with language like that as it is simple. I am not wanting to develop a lot of programs. In fact the two that I created with Hypercard long ago are what I am resuscitating (they are unique uses — one is used to do homeopathic veterinary case work, the other to analyze animal food recipes). So I am not wanting to become a developer, just to make what I have created available to other people as they are useful tools. I find very few people out there use Macs and Supercard is limited to that platform. So I was thinking maybe I could port over to RevMobile, perhaps understand enough to work with it and then make it available. Maybe I should forget about putting it on the iPad (though it would be perfect for that) and think more about making an Ap that would run on PC's.
I hate to admit I don't even know what an Android is. I am thinking it may be a phone that Google put out? Egads!

Richard
Richard Pitcairn, DVM, PhD

FourthWorld
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
Posts: 6715
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:05 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by FourthWorld » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:07 pm

rpitcairn wrote:Richard

Well I read the links. I am not sure I fully understand everything as this is not my main work and my knowledge limited. Last couple of days I have been in touch with Heather at Rev. and asking questions about the use of RevMobile. If I got it right, it would be possible (legal?) to create an Ap myself (using this software) and then to put it on my iPad for my own use. Further (and I asked specifically about this) it would seem possible for me to put the application on someone else's iPad or ones that I buy, install, and then sell as a package. She thought it would be legal. Do you have any idea?
Yes, the Apple license allows for deployments for one's own personal use and for use within a given organization (with some limits on the number of installs). It's my understanding that the "'originally written in" clause only comes into play for public deployments through the App Store.

The precise legality of deploying to others who do not work within your organization (such as perhaps your veterinary clients) is beyond the limited scope of my knowledge of Apple's license and its implications. RevMobile will be up to the task in technical terms, but as far as legality that's up to Apple. The SDK license is available in PDF form in the Apple dev site; you can review that to see how it may apply to your specific circumstance.

But it may be worth noting that the last SDK license lived only six weeks before it was revised yet again in v4.1, so any terms and conditions which might seem favorable to your goals may or may not be available in the weeks or months ahead.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

rpitcairn
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Sedona, AZ
Contact:

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by rpitcairn » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:25 pm

Richard,
Thanks, I understand. I understand also that the rules are evolving. It might make sense for me to learn to use Rev Studio and later, if things change in that direction, to go to RevMobile.

Richard II
Richard Pitcairn, DVM, PhD

mwieder
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
Posts: 2786
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:36 am
Location: Berkeley, CA, US
Contact:

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by mwieder » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:46 pm

You may also want to checkout rodeo (http://rodeoapps.com/) if you're targeting the iPhone/iPad platform with xtalk.

FourthWorld
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
Posts: 6715
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:05 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:24 pm

rpitcairn wrote:Richard,
Thanks, I understand. I understand also that the rules are evolving. It might make sense for me to learn to use Rev Studio and later, if things change in that direction, to go to RevMobile.
That may be a great way to get started. To get the most out of RevMobile it'll be good to have some experience with Rev on the desktop you're more familiar with first.

And by the time you're ready to try RevMobile, it may be that either Apple has loosened up with their unusual restrictions about the narrow range of languages you're allowed to write in for App Store submissions, or perhaps more likely Android will have overtaken iOS' lead in the market and you'd have more potential customers with RevMobile's Android support anyway.

I try to keep up on the recent shifts in mobile market share with this query in Google News at least once a week, and each week it seems Android is gaining significant ground:
http://www.google.com/search?&q=iOS+And ... rket+share

Over the last six months iOS' rate of growth has dropped from a high of 34% down to 23%, and during the same period Android growth has exploded by 886%.
http://mobile.venturebeat.com/2010/08/0 ... -globally/

With this radical sea change, two major analyst firms (Gartner and iSuppli) now predict Android will completely overtake iOS in total market share by 2012:
http://www.macworld.com/article/143170/ ... droid.html
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/ ... s_in_2012/

But in the meantime, you have some work to do getting started with Rev. :)

I don't know if you remember my participation in the SC community back in the Allegiant days, but around 1998 my clients started to require that I help them get their apps to Windows so I had to move the bulk of my work from SC's excellent Mac-exclusive system to the cross-platform MetaCard engine (which has since been acquired by RunRev to become the Rev that we know today).

I can tell you from experience that the transition offers a lot of opportunities to leverage your SuperTalk knowledge, but is not without a fair bit of "unlearning". Most of the differences you'll encounter moving to Rev deal with Rev's multi-platform nature. More than a few things will seem odd or even "wrong" compared to SC at first as you get started, but the more you come to understand the rationale behind the design decisions the more you'll appreciate that most of those decisions were reasonably well thought out ways to handle platform differences.

If you're considering Windows deployments I can't stress enough how helpful it is to have a Windows system available to you and to spend some good time with it. Even virtualization isn't bad these days under Parallels, BootCamp, or similar tools, but spending time with Windows will help a lot in understanding Rev's cross-platform nature, and will be essential if you want to deploy apps there that look and feel as right for that platform as your Mac versions do.

I've worked with a lot of clients providing training and porting services for their SC apps over the years, and I've found that two of the biggest differences between SC and Rev that cause a lot of initial confusion are menus and groups (what SC calls "backgrounds").

There's too much to cover about those in one post and this one has gotten too long already, but I would encourage you to explore Rev with a simple project that you don't care much about first to get a feel for the lay of the land, playing around with the new objects and concepts on something very simple that doesn't matter if you screw it up. ;) With a little play time devoted to that sort of exploratory learning, you'll come to understand some of the key differences that can make the difference in porting your real projects successfully.

And of course you have this forum at your disposal, so please take advantage of it. Like the SC community, the Rev community has a cadre of ol' timers who've already made most of the mistakes you might make as you get started, and are happy to help guide your learning progress with tips, code, and Bernd here may even write a stack or two for you as an example (he's been enormously generous that way with some of the newcomers here).

Welcome aboard. Now that you've been warned about the "unlearning curve", hopefully you'll find your Rev evaluation rewarding and perhaps even liberating. There's a certain magic feeling to clicking the Build button in the standalone maker and suddenly having apps for Mac, Windows, and Linux on your desktop ready to go. :)
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

rpitcairn
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Sedona, AZ
Contact:

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by rpitcairn » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:57 pm

Richard,
You are very generous with your time, putting all this information here for me. I have some thinking to do. Believe it or not, I have never had a PC or Windows. Got my first Mac in 1982 (?), at least I think it was that year — I was on a waiting list for it, had just come out. Had Macs ever since. So I can see I would have to become familiar with Windows and PC use as well as learning the new program. I am sure I could do it, just not sure yet if I have the determination.

Someone else on this forum suggested looking at Rodeo, which I did, and that also seems an attractive option.
I do appreciate all of this and will investigate further.

Best,
Richard II
Richard Pitcairn, DVM, PhD

FourthWorld
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
Posts: 6715
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:05 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:18 pm

Happy to help where I can, Richard. It's not so much generosity, just repaying a debt forward: I've been learning programming for more than 20 years, and during that time so many people have been so helpful to me that the least I can do is offer some of what they've given me to others.

If you're only deploying to Mac, IMO SuperCard is a really great choice. Mark Lucas is one of the most talented and diligent programmers I've ever met, and he's kept that code base in beautiful shape over the years, taking it in some very good directions with uncommon robustness.

If you find yourself needing mobile or multi-platform support of any kind down the road, Rev will be here for you whenever you need it.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

rpitcairn
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Sedona, AZ
Contact:

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by rpitcairn » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:29 pm

I have a busy time the next few weeks but middle of Sept. I am going to download and look at Rev (and also Rodeo if available) and will certainly take advantage of the forum after I have looked at it more.

Richard II
Richard Pitcairn, DVM, PhD

strongbow
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
VIP Livecode Opensource Backer
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:39 am
Location: New Zealand, Australia, Germany, Japan
Contact:

Re: Can I move from Supercard?

Post by strongbow » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:20 pm

Anyone know what happened to the Supercard -> Rev converter utility? Is that anywhere around still??

cheers

Alan

Post Reply

Return to “Converting to LiveCode”