RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

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RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by LiveCode_Panos » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:22 pm

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3.

Developer Preview Release
=========================
Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure that you back up your stacks before testing them.


Getting the Release
===================
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via the automatic updater.


Release Contents
================
LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3 comes with more than 30 changes, including:

New Features
- New text to speech library for iOS, Android and MacOS (Indy/Business only)
- Improved text rendering on Android
- Objective-C block support in LCB

Bug Fixes:
- Fixes to drag-drop on macOS and Windows
- Fix to the Android input field native control 'focus' action
- Device token is now returned correctly on iOS 13
- UIExitsOnSuspend key removed from iOS plist
- Windows camera control now produces much higher quality output

iOS Support
- Building with Xcode 11.3 using the iOS 13.2 SDK is now supported

For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the release notes:

http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ ... 0_dp_3.pdf


Known issues
============
- This build (for Mac) is not notarized yet, so if your Mac is running MacOS Catalina (10.15.x) you will get a warning dialog saying that the app cannot be opened. In this case, you have to whitelist LiveCode in the System Settings -> Security and Privacy, and then right-click on LiveCode and choose "Open" from the contextual menu. Just double-clicking to open it will not work.

Note that you'll only need to do this once, the very first time you open LiveCode 9.6 DP-3. For more details and instructions see here:

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT202491

- The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with Cinnamon window manager.

- The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit LTS yet.


Required Software
=================
The current LC 9.x versions do support MacOS Catalina - but are not yet notarized. Notarization is planned for 9.6.0-RC-1 and subsequent releases.

To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of Xcode as follows:

- macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 12.1 SDK
- macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 13.2 SDK (also covers iOS 13.3)
- macOS 10.15.3: Xcode 11.3.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 13.2 SDK (also covers iOS 13.3)

There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:

https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/

Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and installing it separately.

Important: From the end of April 2020, Apple will only be accepting apps built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit apps to the appstore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.


Feedback
========
Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at http://quality.livecode.com/
We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at viewforum.php?f=93


Have fun!

The LiveCode Team

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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:19 pm

Super cool, esp. the drag-n-drop fix. Thanks!
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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by richmond62 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:41 pm

I'm looking forward to "playing" with that just as soon as I get down to the city and my Mac Mini running 10.15.4 beta whatever, as do not have the bandwidth in the mountains to download it onto my laptop running Xubuntu 20.04 . . .

Obviously my current 'joy-machine' [i.e. the rig I have up here in the Bulgarian mountains] isn't going to cope:
iMac 2006 Intel 64-bit running MacOS 10.7.5.

This rig runs LiveCode 8.1.10 and allows me to work on my Devawriter Pro without a hitch. 8)
-
iMac.jpg
-

Oh, and where would we be without Richmond being ever-so-slightly offensive?

I DID download the 9.6.0 DP-3 read-me and read-it . . .

Why-Oh-Why, "Happy People" are you still banging on about Ubuntu 14.04 and 16.04?

Someone needs to spend an hour at LiveCode central getting your "Dedicated Linux Hardware" slightly more up to date.
Last edited by richmond62 on Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by wsamples » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:03 pm

Richmond's comment about supported Linux versions is totally valid. Livecode needs to be supported on current versions of the supported distros.

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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by richmond62 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:42 pm

I do feel that LiveCode central, like many, many other people, fail to understand
just how important Linux is: the fact that most people run Windows on their desktop machines at home
is not indicative of the significance of Linux.

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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by FourthWorld » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:39 pm

I've written Support to inquire about the plan for supported Linux versions. Hopefully we'll get some guidance on this here soon.
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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by bogs » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:50 pm

I actually thought it had been laid out pretty well in the printing issue thread, wasn't it?
Image

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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by richmond62 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:57 pm

bogs wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:50 pm
I actually thought it had been laid out pretty well in the printing issue thread, wasn't it?
Dunno. But it should be explicit in the PDF with each new release.

That's what people read (if they bother to read anything).

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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by FourthWorld » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:36 pm

bogs wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:50 pm
I actually thought it had been laid out pretty well in the printing issue thread, wasn't it?
Hard to say. I'll wager most people don't memorize the URLs for discussions that might be useful later on. Got a link handy?
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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by jmburnod » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:50 pm

Hi All,
- New text to speech library for iOS, Android and MacOS (Indy/Business only)
Good news but it's really a shame to book TTS for mobile for indy and business licence only (I have one).
Many developers need TTS for educational software and TTS is an important feature for accessibility.
I hope TTS will be available for all license.
Best regards
Jean-Marc

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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by mwieder » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:35 am

@FourthWorld-
Got a link handy?
See... there's my problems with these web forum things. They encourage ephemeral posts to the loss of long-term memory. We just had this discussion a week or so ago. Here's @LCMark's explanation of why we won't be seeing support for modern linux distros in the near future:

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=33744&p=188998#p188972

Now personally I don't see why the need to build in a container vs building in a vm, which IMO would seem to deal with the problem.

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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:07 am

mwieder wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:35 am
@FourthWorld-
Got a link handy?
See... there's my problems with these web forum things. They encourage ephemeral posts to the loss of long-term memory.
That's a problem with mailing lists too.
We just had this discussion a week or so ago. Here's @LCMark's explanation of why we won't be seeing support for modern linux distros in the near future:

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=33744&p=188998#p188972
Thanks for the link. I remembered that there was a discussion, I just couldn't remember if it was here or on the list.

If I read Mark's post correctly, it seems the only EOL'd distro there is Ubuntu 14.04 - did I misunderstand that?
Now personally I don't see why the need to build in a container vs building in a vm, which IMO would seem to deal with the problem.
I don't have an opinion about the container type, but it doesn't look good to list an EOL'd distro while newer ones are absent.

Ubuntu 18.04 is now two years old, and we're just a couple weeks away from Ubuntu 20.04. At a minimum anyone looking for Linux support will expect to see at least 18.04 supported.

I have to admit that I don't fully understand the details about what keeps LC bound to an obsolete OS version.

It's difficult for me to believe that this problem is not solvable by some reasonable means.
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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by richmond62 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:38 am

I know for a fact that LC is NOT
bound to an obsolete OS version.
as I managed to download 9.6.0 DP-3 yesterday and had it
running on my Laptop running Xubuntu 20.04 beta without any apparent hitches.

This, as far as I see things (blinkered, like everyone else, by self-interest) is NOT the problem.

The problem seems to be a bit like this:

1. By mentioning Ubuntu 14.04 and 16.04 (obsolete systems) in their documentation LiveCode send the wrong signals
to would be LiveCode deployers who work with Linux.

2. By mentioning Ubuntu 14.04 and 16.04 (obsolete systems) in their documentation LiveCode make themselves look
pretty slack vis-a-vis their claim that LiveCode runs on Linux.

---------

As an example of the nature of Linux systems as opposed to either Windows or MacOS:

I am typing this on a 2006 Intel iMac running MacOS 10.7.5: the reason it is running an extremely obsolete system is because
Macintosh systems are tied to hardware requirements so that punters keep buying new Macintosh computers.

I have a friend in a neighbouring villa (up in a village in the Bulgarian mountains) who runs Windows XP for the simple reason
that his 15 year old computer cannot cope with 7, 8 or 10.

In my school I have a 2000 Pentium something running Xubuntu 18.04 32-bit . . .

While people my not have the option to upgrade a Mac or Windows system, they generally can and do upgrade Linux systems.

---------

Imagine, if you will for a moment, an large room full of programmers who work most of the time on Macintosh computers.

There are several computers running instantiations of the Windows OS in that room.

In a "dark and neglected corner" there is a single, ancient computer running Ubuntu 16.04 . . . the dust lies so thick
on the keyboard that . . .

Now while may only be a "Richmond Fantasy" it may be close to some sort of reality; and where, pray tell,
did Richmond get the idea for that fantasy from?

Have you ever noticed how dragons, goblins and vampires are not nearly as original as they appear at first
glance? assembled as they are from components in the real world.

Oh, and while I am here, I am reliably informed that an inflatable doll ("Virtual Maria") is not the same thing as . . .

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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by bogs » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:10 am

FourthWorld wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:36 pm
Got a link handy?
I only got around to reading this this morning, and was going to post the direct quote myself, but I see Mark got the job done before I showed up :wink:
I'll wager most people don't memorize the URLs for discussions that might be useful later on.
I would probably agree with that, and neither do I by the way, but even as terrible as my memory is, I remembered the conversation taking place and could have located it again from my "Recent posts", I'm pretty sure it would have been right on the first page.
I was pretty sure that a direct reference to the topic where the information was presented might have jogged the memory of anyone that read it and found it at least a little interesting, though.

For instance aside from myself, Mark remembered what I was talking about. Of course, you might have had a 100 conversations about printing issues on your mind, and so would not remember this particular conversation, and I make allowances for that, so upon finding out you didn't remember, I would have simply linked to it (I had planned to anyway).
mwieder wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:35 am
See... there's my problems with these web forum things. They encourage ephemeral posts to the loss of long-term memory.
Well, that, and the general public's inability to put that thing glued to the end of their palms down for 2 seconds :twisted:
And before that, people used the combination of "books" and "book-marks" to allow them to return to previously read information :twisted: <Just kidding>

Seriously, though, at least it is fairly easy to look up again, as long as you have the time and will power to put a modicum of effort into it, and I think *that* ability is what is contributing to loss of people's abilities to focus, memorize, and retain information.

Let's look at the process before the forums, use lists, etc, showed up just for fun :D

You remember you read something, but aren't sure exactly where or, your <friend/relative/business associate> writes you a letter {which took a week or more to get to you!!!} or says something to you in casual conversation about <xyz> and asks you a question about it...
1. You remember you read something about <xyz>, but aren't sure exactly where. If it was on TV, you might be S.O.L. unless you had the foresight to record it <and then you need to remember which tape it is on>. I'm sure you remember the joy of trying to find some specific spot on a video tape :P
2. You would either turn to a book, newspaper, or previously written letter or memo. The first 2 might even involve a trip to a library <Oh the HORROR!!!>
3. Alternately, you just reply with whatever you *think* you remember, and considering how bad the human mind can be with retention, the world blows up because you were sure there was a '>' symbol in there, when really it was '=/=' :shock:
richmond62 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:38 am
I know for a fact that LC is NOT
bound to an obsolete OS version.
as I managed to download 9.6.0 DP-3 yesterday and had it
running on my Laptop running Xubuntu 20.04 beta without any apparent hitches.
Um. I think your confusing terminology here, as it applies to software.

As an example, there are programs which certainly are intended to be 'bound' to specific Operating Systems, such as Windows or Mac or Linux, or platforms such as Atari game consoles. The fact that you can run those programs outside of the spec that would be supported does not mean they are not bound to that spec.

If I have a program written for Windows and I provide support for that program to run on Windows, that program is then 'bound' to Windows, regardless of whether or not you can run it anywhere else by fluke or some other means.
Last edited by bogs on Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RELEASE LiveCode 9.6.0 DP-3

Post by richmond62 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:31 am

Um. I think your confusing terminology here, as it applies to software.

As an example, there are programs which certainly are intended to be 'bound' to specific Operating Systems, such as Windows or Mac or Linux, or platforms such as Atari game consoles. The fact that you can run those programs outside of the spec that would be supported does not mean they are not bound to that spec.

If I have a program written for Windows and I provide support for that program to run on Windows, that program is then 'bound' to Windows, regardless of whether or not you can run it anywhere else by fluke or some other means.
That's entirely possible, and it wouldn't be the first time either. 8)

However (you'd have been disappointed if there hadn't been a "However"), LiveCode is "bound" to Linux (or a subset of Linux distros),
and while Ubuntu 20.04 is NOT Ubuntu 14.04 or 16.04 it is, in some sense at least, the same operating system.
---------
Anyway; that is all just pussy-footing around:

The simple fact that "certain people" have to admit, is that they have been "a bit slack" in the area of Linux.
---------

AND, on the topic of the ephemeral nature of the internet and other things magnetic and electronic: I have about 5,000 books in my flat
with bookmarks that are dated, some going back 44 years from when I was 14: books do not need to be reformatted.

I had an awful time just before Christmas getting a BBC BASIC program off a cassette tape . . .

1. Cassette player connected via a MIDI interface to a BBC Master compact.

2. Load program from cassette tape, save program on 800kb floppy.

3. Load floppy into floppy drive on a Macintosh laptop running MacOS 7.1.

4. Connect SCSI interface ZIP drive to laptop (special connector).

5. Transfer program from floppy to ZIP disk.

6. Connect ZIP drive to SCSI card in back of machine running Debian.

7. Transfer program from ZIP disk to USB flash drive.

8. Copy program from USB flash drive onto Mac Mini to open with HORIZON BBC emulator.

9. Find notebook with all 50 lines of the original program in my bookshelf . . . :oops:

10. Dig out one of my high school slide rules and jump in hot bath with a glass of decent wine. :)

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