Very Hard to learn for beginner

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gurusonwheels
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Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by gurusonwheels » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:19 pm

this code is the hardest to learn of any i have tried .
the documentation setup is not what it should be .

example . if i add a spinner and right click and goto documentation .

it only gives me the syntax ..

for a beginner this is not enough there should be at least a example or two of actually using it .

thinking of requesting my refund as i keep getting off on wild goose chases trying to find simple examples ....

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by dunbarx » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:29 pm

Hi.

I am not sure what you mean, possibly because I still work in v.6 and not yet in v.8 or v.9. I know about spinners, but the fact that you mention them at all means you are ahead of yourself.

Livecode is the easiest of all languages to learn. That does not mean it is easy. The vocabulary is quite large, and its structure, if one is not familiar with the x-talk way, may seem foreign.

You are very likely jumping in too quickly, lured by the apparent simplicity and openness of LC. Many new users assume that they can simply start making applications, because the environment seems so english-like and object-like. It is. But it still takes considerable preparatory effort to grok the way x-talks work. I teach new users, and they are constantly frustrated, once they see how LC works at its heart, why they still cannot make a game in an hour.

In other words, have you read the user guide or examined any of the lessons or tutorials? I do not mean cover to cover, but at least dedicated some serious time to them? If LC was as easy to use as it seems, it would have none of the flexibility and power that it in fact possesses. Once you can drive it, though, you will love it. It is the right way to program. But this will not happen for a while, especially if you have experience in lower level languages.

My spell check wrote in the above line "loser" languages, instead of "lower". I was tempted to leave it, but, well...

In yet other words, do not abandon LC yet. Ask here again and often about what you are missing or lacking or disliking. You have time to get a refund; you do not have time to misunderstand LC.

Craig Newman
Last edited by dunbarx on Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:39 pm

Hello gurusonwheels - welcome to the forums.

The Dictionary is indeed a sparse reference, designed to provide only the essentials needed to use a given language element.

In the Help menu you'll see an item for User Guide. As Craig noted, it is the best place to get oriented to the overall workflow of LiveCode.

The LiveCode User Guide a big volume, and most folks don't read all of it. But the first few chapters, particularly "Getting Started", "Structuring your Application", "Building a User Interface" and "Coding in LiveCode" will help you form a solid conceptual framework for success.

The next few chapters, "Events", "The Message Path", "Commands and Functions", "Variables", and "Containers, Operators, and Sources of Value" will round out that foundation into a productive understanding in less than an hour's skimming.

The rest of the User Guide can be reviewed later on as needed for proficiency in specific areas, like databases, debugging, etc.

Take a gander at the User Guide, and let us know how it goes. Feel free to post any questions you have along the way here - we're happy to help.
Richard Gaskin
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gurusonwheels
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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by gurusonwheels » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:08 pm

Non the less . I'm simply stating that all other languages give syntax and a real working example of code
When I look up a command .

I should not have to connect to the net and search forums or Google for examples or each command ..

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by dunbarx » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:27 pm

Hi.

But the dictionary does give syntax and examples. It is embedded in the program, not a source on the internet.

The single most basic, most powerful and ubiquitous command in LC is "put". The dictionary entry tells all about it, and gives a handful of example code snippets, as well as related terms and a wealth of additional information, much of it likely opaque to an absolute beginner. But what you are asking for is right there, and even that very new user ought to be able to see what the command does, and where and how it is used.

Are we talking about the same thing?

Craig

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by dunbarx » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:49 pm

I am fond of telling new LC'ers to make an address book or a calculator. Or perhaps make a "game" where a button bounces back and forth between two other buttons. Not to spend any time at all trying to make anything pretty, just functional. Such silly and useless gadgetry bellies the effort, learning, disappointment and triumph that will inevitably come from such toying around. The result may be kept in a folder along with all ones other childhood keepsakes. The knowledge will be invaluable, and after a couple of such "apps", you will have gotten over the hump, and will know how to drive.

Craig

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:37 pm

gurusonwheels wrote:I should not have to connect to the net and search forums or Google for examples or each command ..
You don't. Unlike Python, R, C, and some other languages, the LiveCode language is delivered as part of a complete IDE, with all the resources we've described here included. There are many additional resources across the web, but you won't need them to get started. Everything you need is on your hard drive right now.

Each Dictionary entry includes syntax examples.

For examples of how different language elements work together, click the "Guide" tab in the same Dictionary window and choose a topic of interest.

For an orientation to the language (recommended) see the first few chapters of the User Guide, also included in the LiveCode installation.

There are also 78 example projects installed (click the "Resources" button in the toolbar), and a community repository of examples (click "Sample Stacks" in the toolbar), all accessible from within the IDE.

There are probably more learning resources installed with LiveCode than you'll find with most languages. The key to learning LiveCode is to find the ones most relevant for your stage of learning. The recommendations given here in this thread are good ones, honed from many years of helping people get up and running with LiveCode.

Review a few chapters in the User Guide, poke around in an example project or two, use the Dictionary when needed for syntax on language elements as you go, and you'll do well.

And along the way, you have us here in this forum to answer any questions you may have.
Richard Gaskin
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hpsh
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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by hpsh » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:40 am

think livecode are pretty easy, but the spinner thing is a problem.

i can find https://livecode.com/livecode-widgets-t ... indicator/ and its looks pretty easy, but i can't get it to work.

the widget will spinn, but the point has to be to make the spinner to disappear?

i only get a error with a missing command (something like no doCancell function)

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by richmond62 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:05 pm

hide widget "spinner"

show widget "spinner"

VERY DIFFICULT!

hpsh
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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by hpsh » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:52 pm

hide widget "spinner"

show widget "spinner"

VERY DIFFICULT!
sure, but the thing is, why is it not in the example?

and please get this, i don't saying that livecode is shit, only that i think they should do a bit more work on the examples they putting on the webpages.

this one is also pretty easy to fix, in a way its no bugg, its just not updated for newer versians of livecode http://lessons.livecode.com/m/2592/l/12 ... -an-object

if you know what to do, its not a big problem, but for a newbie, this can get some to just give up.

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by FourthWorld » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:32 pm

hpsh wrote:the thing is, why is it not in the example?
Combinatorial explosion.

Many LiveCode commands, like "hide" and "show", work for most LC objects. If the community were to try to include all possible examples of all combinations of things that work with a given token, each Dictionary entry would be 50 pages long and no one would read them.

Instead, may I gently remind you that the orientation to the language provided in the User Guide chapters I described above are really helpful. With less than an hour's skimming you'll have enough background on the flavor of the language that you'll be able to get started well, and when you need to find something like "hide" or "show" you'll have confidence searching for those terms in the Dictionary.

Trust me on this. I've been doing training in this family of languages for a long time.
Richard Gaskin
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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by richmond62 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:53 pm

sure
If you want a fight, you can have a fight; but all that will happen will that everyone will have
bloody noses.

If, however, you approach Livecode in this way:

1. Don't expect everything to be on a spoon for you.

[ When have you ever experienced that: after all, at school we have to make an effort and learn? ]

2. There are lots of people who watch this forum and who are more than happy to help,
but if you become combative so will they.

3. A little bit of lateral thinking will go a long way; so, for instance, if
you look up "hide" and "show" in the documentation and it says you can do this with pictures,
why not try it with other things BEFORE putting your Dobok on and your Ninja face-paint?

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by dunbarx » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:14 pm

@Richmond.

I do not think hpsh is trying to be difficult. Remember Amthony Black?

@hpsh.

I would like you to start fresh, with a quick read of the user guide as Richard and I suggested. Just that for now. The dictionary is your friend. You may also try here:
http://www.hyperactivesw.com/revscriptc ... ences.html

There is indeed a commitment of time and effort required just to get going. But very quickly you will gain a comfort level that you cannot see right now. But as I said, if LC was simply a matter of dragging cute animated icons from a pail, it would not be what it is at all, a general purpose programming environment with astonishing power and ease of use. And fun to boot.

You have to start the right way. We are here to help.

Craig

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by jameshale » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:46 pm

Just to be clear.
The "User Guide" in versions 8+ of LC is generated from the markdown docs you will find under the "Guide" tab in the dictionary.
It is a PDF compilation of the current guides and release notes.
The information is not different, just the format.

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by dunbarx » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:46 pm

I now see there are two members speaking from the OP viewpoint. gurusonwheels was the OP.

My error.

Craifg

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