Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

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capellan
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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by capellan » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:14 am

Hi Lagi,

Actually, I bought this book a few months ago but
my copy do not included the floppy disk.

I contacted one of the authors, Stuart Hirshfield
and he send me all the files from the CD.
These files are Java runtime executables.

If it's not possible to make a copy of these files
from the floppy disk then, I will look for the
Java version of this book.

Are you in Europe? Maybe the Macintosh User Group
of your own or a near country could help us to create
an image or extract the files from this floppy.

PC hardware could not read Mac Floppies because
there are differences in their internal electronic
design (variable speed and other details)
scan.jpg
Book without floppy disk

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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by Lagi Pittas » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:23 pm

I thought that maybe the case until apple added USB.

So .... I went on ebay and i'm picking up a Performa on Saturday or Sunday ... I will not be beaten by a floppy disk.

BTW can you upload a zip of the files that Stuart sent you here please.

Hopefully if the floppy isn't frazzled over the years I will have the files for sunday/monday


Regards Lagi

p.s.

I'm in the UK

capellan
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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by capellan » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:39 pm

This is the link that Stuart Hirshfield send me:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B36TfQ ... JzSFU/view

By the way, if you ask in this group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/macenthusiasts/ I am sure that you could receive unbiased help about Classic Macs.

Buying a Macintosh Performa to rescue a floppy content is an heroic act that must be supported by true Mac experts.

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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by richmond62 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:46 pm

Buying a Macintosh Performa to rescue a floppy content is an heroic act that must be supported by true Mac experts.
Indeed: I just connect an external USB floppy drive to my G3 iMac, my G4 macMini or my G5 iMac.

capellan
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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by capellan » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:59 am

Maybe yours is an USB Floppy Disk reader built only for Macintosh,
not a generic USB Floppy Disk reader built for Windows or Linux...

Take a look at every meaningful difference between both
platforms: http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_st ... loppy.html

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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by Lagi Pittas » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:15 pm

Success!!! but ....

Managed to copy the single install file from the disk onto the mac desktop but hypercard isn't installed. So I copied to a 1.44 HD IBM Floppy I managed to dig out.
The original file on the floppy says takes 36K on disk copied to PC it says 16K so I assume it's to do with disk clusters.

Anyway messed around tring to install sheepshaver - copy unarchivers etc from macintoshygarden - got some pressing work to do at moment.

SO here is the disk if you can extract and make a working install for livecode that would be great.

BTW on the disk it was called "install AE" the filename is what it was called when copied
Attachments
!INSTALL.zip
(3.83 KiB) Downloaded 121 times

capellan
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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by capellan » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:58 am

Hi Lagi,

I was surprised by the small size of this archive, so using an Hexadecimal Viewer, I found this information within this file named !Install:

"The Stacks are shipped in a compressed format on a single, 800K floppy disk. In order to use them, they must first be "decompressed" and loaded onto another disk. Once decompressed, they occupy approximately 1100K of disk space.
Decompress the Stacks and install them onto a disk (with 1100K available!), click on the "Install Stacks" button, below. Then, just follow the prompts.
You will also be given the option of installing a button on your Home Stack that is linked to."

In other part of this file named !Install, we could find the actual name of the compressed folders. These folders are compressed within a Macintosh application of type Self Extracting Archives (.SEA) The names of the folders are: 1) TMs 2) PIPs 3) Circuits and 4) DNA Sequences

Using your Mac, copy the whole disk contents inside a folder and compress this folder with Stuffit (.sit) or MacZip (.zip) or Compact Pro (.cpt) , then you could send this compressed folder by email to any of us or post it in Dropbox, Google Drive or any other free file hosting site.
Last edited by capellan on Sun Oct 02, 2016 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by Lagi Pittas » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:52 am

Hi

I was surprised as well and did see the word compressed but did not see the size that the files should be so assumed that the install program was a self extractor.

I could not see any other files on the disk.
How would I create a full exact image as all the programs I tried to copy from my PC had HQX or sea extensions but were marked as PC programs by the mac and would not execute.

Thanks

Lagi

capellan
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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by capellan » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:20 pm

I checked again the floppy disk photo that you posted
and noticed that it's an 800k disk that only could
be read using a Macintosh with a floppy drive.

MacDrive and HFV Explorer are Windows programs
that could read High-Density (HD) 1.44 MB Macintosh
floppy disk, but could not read 800k Macintosh
floppies.
http://www.macdisk.com/mden.php

Correction: After searching much more in the web,
I found that exists a PCI card that allows a common
floppy drive to read many different floppy formats,
among them, 400k and 800k Macintosh floppy disk
The card cost 89.99 Pounds. Look here:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/cat ... cts_id=842
More info about this product in Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individua ... _Catweasel

I am sure that near where you live in the U.K., there is
a Macintosh Expert that could help to save this content
as a compressed folder (.sit or .zip or .cpt)
Look here: http://www.macusersuk.org/mugs/mugslist.php

Did you ask for advice to the experts of these
worldwide internet groups of Mac Users?
Macintosh Garden: http://macintoshgarden.org
Mac Enthusiasts: https://www.facebook.com/groups/macenthusiasts/
Macintosh Repository: http://www.macintoshrepository.org/

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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by andrewferguson » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:10 am

Wow! Progress seems to be happening.

A quick note on buying another book that will have the disk: unless the seller description for the specific copy of the book you are ordering mentions that the disk is included, then don't buy it for the disk. The title "book/disk" is misleading: it implies that the original book came with a disk, not that the copy of the book you are ordering will still have the disk.

Lagi: I am in the UK (Edinburgh, the same as the LiveCode team!) and I probably have the right equipment to get the file off the disk. (I have around 40 old Macs, in various states of working-ness). However, you should be able to do this on your Performa just fine. The best way is to use Disk Copy to create an archive of the entire floppy disk, which I should then be able to dig around in.
nee
The file you've uploaded is a HyperCard stack, and it does load into LiveCode. But as others have pointed out, that stack it looking for another file, called "Analytical Engine: Stacks - Compressed.sea". This is a compressed file that contains some more stacks, one of which is the main one : AE Home. The SEA format is a Self Extracting Archive and all early macs should be able to decompress this file without requiring additional software.

I'm not sure why you can't find the SEA file. If you have a copy of stuffit expander on your Performa, then you should be able to obtain a copy of Disk Copy (version 4.2 works in most cases) and make a .dsk file of the disk. This has the advantage that the resource fork of the original files on the disk are preserved (Apple used a filing system where every visible file had two parts, a "data" fork - which contains most of the data of the file and is what you uploaded earlier - and a "resource" fork, which is the part of the file that contains images / sounds / icons / etc used by the stack. To recover the stack completely, you need both the data fork and the resource fork. Creating a complete disk image using Disk Copy will make sure that both forks are preserved.

Let me know if you have any questions about what I've said - and enjoy using the Performa!
Andrew

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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by Lagi Pittas » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:08 pm

Hi Andrew

I'm going to connect it to the internet tonight (i hope!!) using an ethernet cable to see if I can download stuffit if it isn't on the performa.
If that works maybe I will be able to upload assuming there is a browser on there ... lots of ifs.

Failing that I will send you the Disk if that is ok with you?

Kindest Regards Lagi

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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by andrewferguson » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:40 pm

That sounds great, I hope you get it transferred tonight. If not, I would be more than happy to do the transfer for you. I'll do a trial either today or tomorrow with an 800k disk (probably a HyperCard 1.1 install disk) to make sure I can.

Let me know how it goes

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Re: Analytical Engine - Success!!??

Post by Lagi Pittas » Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:07 am

Ok The Bad News

The Ebay seller suggested there was an ethernet card on the Performa because "I have a yellow wire that plugs into the router"
No Ethernet socket anywhere although Internet explorer 5 is on.

The good news.

Stuffit expander was on the Mac but no Hypercard.
Anyway to cut a long story short I maximized the disk window and viola I could see the compressed file with the stacks that was hidden Duh!!!. I have expanded them and copied them to a DSDD PC floppy so the names are changed a bit because of special fonts/type used on the mac.

I Am uploading the compressed file itself, the install and the unzipped files files I made of the uncompressed stacks from the mac (hope that makes sense) as one zip file

The folder/file called !STACKS.COM was called stackscompressed on the disk !RTSHOW I think from memory was ArtShow etc - I extracted at home last night and put it on my dropbox but haven't got the disk with me at the moment.

I have have placed it on my dropbox because there is a limit of 256K zip file - and when I compress the compressed stacks it's still over half a Megabyte.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/el6v0kptskk1q ... e.zip?dl=0


If someone can get them in a livecode format - preferably saved in the oldest format that will work 6 or even pre - 6.x so that we can all get access to them.

Regards Lagi

p.s. Alejandro the link to the google drive you gave needs permission to access and I asked last week but no email came back. Can you upload to Dropbox please?

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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by andrewferguson » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:10 pm

Well, here they are. They are in LiveCode 5 format, so most recent versions of LiveCode (including 8.1) are able to open them.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z90gze0s6xim8 ... s.zip?dl=1

Note that I made the zip file on a Mac, so if you open it on anything but a Mac you will get an additional folder called __MACOSX. This should not be needed and so can be deleted.

I opened the original stacks with HyperCard 2.4 as well, and visually there are very little differences between the original HyperCard stacks and the imported LiveCode stacks, so I assume that the import / conversion was a success.

Let me know if there are any stacks that I missed, or if something seems corrupted, etc.

Enjoy... (I'll have to get my book back out and start looking through it with the stacks)
Andrew

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Re: Analytical Engine - An Introduction to Computer Science

Post by Lagi Pittas » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:54 pm

Brilliant Andrew thanks for that.

I noticed that the name kept the same letters as on the original floppy with the slanted "AE" at the beginning how does that work?

I loaded the script i was really interested in - the Loggo circuit simulator and it has a load of "create menus" - Why they didn't just use nice big buttons I don't understand, it's so much easier for the user IM(NS)HO - "Don't make me think".

Thanks again Andrew

Lagi

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