Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

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tellboy
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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by tellboy » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:42 am

FourthWorld wrote:As Trevor noted, anyone running a business selling software will find that $499/yr is one of the smallest expense they have, certainly a bargain for having so much of their code for so many platforms delivered to them tested and ready to go.

For those whose business model isn't sufficient to cover $499, there's likely little point in keeping the source closed anyway because the business would already be inviable at that point. Probably better to find other means of monetizing the effort, through donations, or services, etc, than to try to eek out a living on such small sales revenue.
This may be all very well for a business that is up and running but you may have missed the point being made.

I have an app that is nearly finished. It probably needs a little bit of tinkering and could do with that costly widget,does all I ever intended when I set out to develop it for my home use. It may make money, it may not but I am certainly not going to expend $499 to find out.

I think (can't remember which post) the question was, how can LC help this person and perhaps help themselves in the process?

Perhaps LC could offer a system whereby they evaluate the product and it is published with LC getting a small cut of the profit? In return the developer gets a full Licence?

I suppose in this way the risk is not all with the developer.

All the best (and I mean it)

Terry

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by wsamples » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:06 am

tellboy wrote:I have an app that is nearly finished. It probably needs a little bit of tinkering and could do with that costly widget,does all I ever intended when I set out to develop it for my home use. It may make money, it may not but I am certainly not going to expend $499 to find out.

Terry

You can start with a month or two at the monthly subscription price and get your app built. The finished app can be distributed forever regardless of when you end your subscription. You could start another monthly subscription if you decide your app needs an update, or if you feel your app is indeed successful enough, go ahead and spring for a whole year ($499).

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by tellboy » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:14 am

wsamples wrote:You can start with a month or two at the monthly subscription price and get your app built. The finished app can be distributed forever regardless of when you end your subscription. You could start another monthly subscription if you decide your app needs an update, or if you feel your app is indeed successful enough, go ahead and spring for a whole year ($499).
I thought that was part of the point of this discussion that the indie or indy (take your pick on LC website) is going up in price.

http://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pricing/

I am clearly confused and should have read on that you can rent for $49/month.

I suppose if you put at product out there and it only sells in small quantities you can just stop selling it and upset those who did buy it or you can keep going at $49/month to provide updates and in a number of months you've past the price of an Indie licence.

All the best

Terry

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by wsamples » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:43 pm

I can remember when Volkswagon advertised the Beetle on television as "still only $1995" and later Renault advertised its Le Car as "the only car with an MSRP under $2000". I wonder if you can really say complaining about rising prices is a discussion that has a point.

My comment was to point out that there is indeed something available that provides exactly a solution for the scenario presented.

Why would you need to stop selling your product? You can continue to sell it after your subscription expires. The monthly and yearly subscriptions are equal, you only lose the right to continued (new) development. Further, there is no requirement to maintain a continuous subscription if there isn't economic justification for you to do so.

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:59 pm

tellboy wrote:All the best (and I mean it)

Terry
That IS now clear. :)

This thread drifted a bit in terms of its focus, and I am inclined to agree with the stuff about LiveCode's
advertising and its oddly confusing website.

I do think that if, now, rather than in 2001, I were looking for a programming package to develop
an educational CD-ROM about different Music genres (which IS how I stumbled on RunRev, having
found Metacard very awkward to use owing to its GUI), I wouldn't find out about LiveCode, and even
if I did I wouldn't really get much further than its website.

Queerly enough, this: https://web.archive.org/web/20010202051 ... unrev.com/

is less confusing than what is online currently. It may not have offered as much, but, at least one could get
to where one wanted relatively easily.
------------------------

In Bulgaria, where I live and work, only ONE adult has heard of LiveCode [me].

The schools are torturing teenagers with PASCAL from 1985 (well, among all the other ways
they are torturing the kids), except at places such as the Mathematical Specialisation High Schools
where they are torturing them with C++.

The teachers who have to teach PASCAL hate it (can one wonder why?), and the kids they teach it to
hate it, and there goes a generation of talented kids down the pan.

When I have mentioned LiveCode to one or two school teachers they have politely looked at
passing pigeons and remarked about:

1. It not being a "mainstream" language. . . . is Turbo PASCAL from 1985 a mainstream language nowadays?

[When my kids had to do that stuff, as the school made them share 3 to a PC at school, I set up Free-DOS on a
Pentium I with PASCAL so they could at least do some homework that made sense: both of my boys said "F*ck it,
don't bother Dad" more times than I care to mention: and I agreed completely with them. The younger one had
already messed around with LiveCode, and he made the glaringly obvious point.]

2. They have never heard of it. Which is probably RunRev's fault.

3. The Ministry of Education says kids at 15 should learn PASCAL unless they do C++ at the Maths schools.

Now 90% of teachers in Bulgaria are, like teachers everywhere, "sheep"; underpaid and fed on a boring diet of grass -
well, very nearly. The people at the Ministry of Education are career politicians who know "sweet FA" about teaching
computer programming and how young minds work.

So, Why The "Fudge" isn't LiveCode doorstepping every Min. of Ed. in Europe (and elsewhere)?

Why don't I see LiveCode Community bundled on CDs on the extremely crappy Computer mags I see
every day as I pass the newspaper kiosks on my way to work? Along with a few introductory lessons?

Why isn't every other kid during the long, hot ,humid Summer, instead of being crouched over their PCs
playing online games, watching porn or faffing around endlessly with social media, not busy designing
little games they can exchange with their friends, and learning progging at the same time???

Because RunRev, while making a bloody good product, is bloody bad at pimping the thing!

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by trevordevore » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:26 pm

I would agree that this is a good discussion to have. We all want LiveCode to be successful and I'm sure we often wonder why it doesn't have more traction than it does.
Newbie4 wrote:There are companies successfully marketing languages and tools. Delphi, around since 1993, has no free version. The starter version is $217, the upgrade is $993 and the top Architect version is over $4,000. The company, Embarcadero Technologies, seems to be doing fine.
In addition to what Richard already mentioned about Delphi and their original success, it should be noted that Embarcadero Technologies is targeting businesses. If I go to their purchase page I see a number of professional developer and database tools with high price tags. Sell a number of those licenses, along with the support contracts, to a company that has a team working with the tool and you are making a good chunk of money each year from each customer. This is a very different model than what LiveCode has used.
Newbie4 wrote:LiveCode is at a disadvantage because the free version is all that many people need. There is no reason for them to upgrade to the Indy or Business licenses.
I don't know that this is the cause of any problems. Prior to going Open Source LiveCode didn't have a huge user base and was still experimenting with pricing models. LiveCode has never had the tools necessarily to target large teams of developers so it has always been difficult to target larger businesses or teams. There is still too much friction when trying to use LiveCode in teams that make it a less than ideal solution for team development. In addition, prior to 8 LiveCode was limited in the types of UI controls you could realistically create and implement in a project. Anything outside of the built-in controls was (IMO) a kludge. Don't get me wrong, I still love what I've been able to do with LiveCode. But I think it was a harder sell to businesses when you compared LiveCode with other professional tools that developers are used to using.
Newbie4 wrote:In my previous post, I was not necessarily advocating a $25. version for the masses. I was suggesting an easier transition level to the Indy license. After building their first app/program, most people are not ready to commit to a yearly license, classes and a sizable sum of money. Give them a chance to experience a little success first. Have a "Publish" or "Test the Water's" level. Make it a reasonable sum ($100) or a single-use or single-platform version where they can encrypt/publish for $25. (1 program or 1 time or 1 platform, ??).
What worries me about trying to have plans that accommodate everyone is that every plan you have requires resources to support, sell, and develop. I would like to see LiveCode become much more established before they focus their attention to a market such as this. I just don't see them getting the types of returns that they need right now.
Newbie4 wrote:It would also identify their apps as LiveCode apps - either with a watermark or a written stipulation that they have to state that they wrote it with LiveCode. The publicity would be a benefit
That would depend on the quality of the apps. If the apps only attract a small amount of additional $25-$100 licenses but turn off larger amounts then it isn't helping. I would prefer to see larger teams using LiveCode and then having case studies about how easy that was.
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps - http://www.screensteps.com

Levure Application Framework: https://github.com/trevordevore/levure
LiveCode Resources for Developers: http://livecode.bluemangolearning.com

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:51 pm

tellboy wrote:
FourthWorld wrote:As Trevor noted, anyone running a business selling software will find that $499/yr is one of the smallest expense they have, certainly a bargain for having so much of their code for so many platforms delivered to them tested and ready to go.

For those whose business model isn't sufficient to cover $499, there's likely little point in keeping the source closed anyway because the business would already be inviable at that point. Probably better to find other means of monetizing the effort, through donations, or services, etc, than to try to eek out a living on such small sales revenue.
This may be all very well for a business that is up and running but you may have missed the point being made.

I have an app that is nearly finished. It probably needs a little bit of tinkering and could do with that costly widget,does all I ever intended when I set out to develop it for my home use. It may make money, it may not but I am certainly not going to expend $499 to find out.
Agreed. The difference between a business and a hobby is that the goal of the business is to make money. The average software developer salary is US$96k, so even if a modest business was looking to bring in only as much as a half-time job, out of the starting gate the business will need more than an order of magnitude in excess of the tool cost to be viable, and by the time you include marketing costs, self-employment tax, and other expenses, even more so.

With successful products we find that marketing costs are often a multiple of development costs (~2x for startups, ~3x or even ~4x for mature products), and tech support alone is commonly between 15-20% of payroll expense (though I've discoverd that there are ways to bring that down to 5-10% if you're really careful with design, documentation, and self-help services at the product's web site).

Mitigating common risks with starting a business requires research and planning.

Many useful resources exist to guide the prospective business owner through the process of determining product viability, e.g.:

How to Research Your Business Idea
Your brilliant idea may indeed be brilliant--or it may need some work. Here's how to find out whether you're ready for startup.
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/70518


This one is brief but includes a mention of SWOT analysis, which I've found particularly useful in a great many business contexts:

How to Determine Market Viability for a Product or Service
http://www.ehow.com/how_4493168_determi ... rvice.html


This one offers a sobering reminder that the single biggest reason (42%) businesses fail is because they didn't take the time up front to determine market need:

Customer Discovery and Market Research are Key Elements for a Startup Viability
http://www.anagard.com/blog/2014/09/29/ ... viability/


I think (can't remember which post) the question was, how can LC help this person and perhaps help themselves in the process?

Perhaps LC could offer a system whereby they evaluate the product and it is published with LC getting a small cut of the profit? In return the developer gets a full Licence?
That level of business coaching would be very labor-instensive, and unlikely to have a positive ROI.

People considering starting a business would do well to take advantage of existing organizations that provide such guidance, like the Service Core of Retired Executives (SCORE):
https://www.score.org/

Many chambers of commerce and some municipalities also provide seminars and other events to help guide business planning.

And I can't say enough good things about Meetup.com as a source for finding local groups where the members work together to support business startup and growth.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by Newbie4 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:46 pm

Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) is not free. The free version of Red Hat was converted to the Fedora Project and was split off years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Project. Red Hat has always targeted support contracts as its major source of revenue. Red Hat also sells training, and integration services that help customers in using open-source software. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat#Business_model.

RunRev's ultimate goal is to become profitable and self-sustaining. From the posts above, that appears to be through more business customers.

If they need more revenue, either they charge more or get more customers.

That is what they are doing now, raising prices. I agree that $499/yr is a reasonable charge for a business license.

They also need to develop a better strategy to get more paying customers. They need to gain more traction in the developer community. Maybe they need more visibilty, more marketing and a better public image. The open-source version is one key to this. It makes it easy for developers to try it. The hard part is to convince them to invest the time and work to try it.

How many users of the open source versions are actually converting to paying customers? The ones that don't, why are they not converting?

As far as the open source/educational/personal communities, those do not to seem to be gaining much either, especially in the current "learn to program", STEM, initiatives that are everywhere.Better visibility here is a valuable marketing tool. This category needs to increase. A decent percentage of these people could become paying customers. What percentage of these groups convert to paying customers? Why/Why not?

The bottom line is that RunRev needs to increase it's number of paying customers. Where and how they get those paying customers is where the dilemma lies.
Cyril Pruszko
https://sites.google.com/a/pgcps.org/livecode/
https://sites.google.com/a/setonhs.org/app-and-game-workshop/home
https://learntolivecode.com/

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by Lagi Pittas » Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:51 pm

Here's A suggestion that will not only bring in the Moolah but also bring in the business developers.

Livecode using its stalwarts experience creates a sales, purchase nominal ledger with an invoicing module.

Not a namby pampby system that you can knock up in a couple of days that you can use for yourself but you would never put your name on it.

This suite should use LC Best practices - should be able to switch from MYSQL (or other sql databases - that's supposed to be a selling point isn't it) to sqlite.

Now any developer who buys a 2 year subscription gets the sourcecode to this and is allowed to sell it.

This does 2 things -

1. If its good - ie easy to use and does the basics well livecode give away or sell a compiled version ( I prefer the former see below for reasons) -
2. The company finds it has grown and want the multiuser version. The multiuser version can be bought and it comes with a 1 year commercial licence, they can make the little mods themselves - or are put intouch with LC developers who can make the changes.
3. You have now something that isn't a game to show what can be done - I have a plethora of systems in which I can write multimedia - but LC with a few extras could span the multimedia and Database areas better - don't hid your light under a bushel.

Reason I think the single user basic version should be given away

1. Its easy to get someone to try something for free
2. You can upload it to so many sites where people are searching for accounts - if it's easy to use people will have a go at this progamming stuff if it gives them control
3. Made with LIvecode stamped all over it

This model has (and still is used) by companies that have been going for years


foxpro
http://www.hallogram.com/vfpacct/

delphi
http://www.turbocashuk.com/index.html -- GPL'd

http://www.bravosoft.com/index.html
http://www.bravosoft.com/developerinfo.htm

http://www.adapta.com/AdaptAccounts.htm

Visual Basic
http://www.pcskills.net/pcsacct.htm
http://www.pcskills.net/pcsacctDK.htm

If Someone has written the above maybe come to an agreement with LC - you can't sell to 5 billion people and support them.


After I have finished the app/program I'm working on I have to start on 3 other addons to it, so my time is limited.

In the future my intention is to rewrite/clone (and bring up-to date) the third party accounting system Called Saphire Accounts we used to sell running on an apple ][ with 2 143K floppy drives (no bloat there) which was then ported to the PC by the developers (it was written in UCSD Pascal) so was easily ported. At the moment Im too busy with what I have going on now.

My accountant gets teary eyed when he looks at the Crap Bloatware called Sage accounts he now has to use ....

Regards Lagi

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:10 pm

Newbie4 wrote:Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) is not free. The free version of Red Hat was converted to the Fedora Project and was split off years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Project. Red Hat has always targeted support contracts as its major source of revenue. Red Hat also sells training, and integration services that help customers in using open-source software. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat#Business_model.

RunRev's ultimate goal is to become profitable and self-sustaining. From the posts above, that appears to be through more business customers.
The Red Hat comparison is a good one - from the Wikipedia article you linked to:
Red Hat partly operates on a professional open-source business model based on open code, development within a community, professional quality assurance, and subscription-based customer support. They produce open-source code, so more programmers can make further adaptations and improvements.
Based on the GPL-governed Linux and related packages, Red Hat core is indeed open source, which is what makes Fedora possible as a downstream. Like many other FOSS projects RH also develops some proprietary components, but as you noted a lot of their revenue is from services.
How many users of the open source versions are actually converting to paying customers? The ones that don't, why are they not converting?
In many cases they're very different sets of goals and needs.

Software entrepreneurs can start with Community and once they're convinced of the value for their proprietary products they can purchase a license for that deployment.

But many users don't need to ship proprietary works. Those making tools for themselves or their company aren't shipping to others, so a distribution license like the GPL doesn't apply to those use cases. Others are actively pursuing the sharing of code, and the GPL is an excellent choice for that.

As far as the open source/educational/personal communities, those do not to seem to be gaining much either, especially in the current "learn to program", STEM, initiatives that are everywhere.Better visibility here is a valuable marketing tool. This category needs to increase. A decent percentage of these people could become paying customers. What percentage of these groups convert to paying customers? Why/Why not?
Learning materials, case studies, and other resources of interest to educators are available at the company's education portal:
http://livecode.com/products/livecode-p ... education/

Their blog also contains frequent stories of successful use of LiveCode in classroom settings:
http://livecode.com/tag/education/

To compliment the company's efforts in the EDU space we're building a Community Educational Outreach Team, for which Max Shafer has volunteered as team leader - this section of the forums was established as a watering hole to bring educators together to share ideas, tools, etc. for making ever more effective use of LiveCode in EDU:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=107

Feel free to contribute to that discussion so we can expand the reach of this effort as much as possible. LiveCode brings a unique value to many areas of education, from ad hoc tool development to CS curricula otherwise faced with the limitations of tools like Scratch or the daunting complexity of Java. Your thoughts there will be much appreciated.

The bottom line is that RunRev needs to increase it's number of paying customers.
That's the goal. One way all of us can help is also the best for ourselves: just ship great stuff made with LiveCode.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

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LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by Newbie4 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:05 pm

Your links illustrate my points exactly. If you dig into those resources and case studies, they are all over 5 years old. The lack of newer materials, case studies and teacher posts since LiveCode became open source speaks volumes. With all the press and publicity of "Learning to Program", "Girls Who Code", STEM incentives, you hear or see nothing on LiveCode or anyone using it.
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https://sites.google.com/a/setonhs.org/app-and-game-workshop/home
https://learntolivecode.com/

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by zaxos » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:52 pm

What Can You Do With Indie?‏
Wrote by Kevin, so much better mail. That one i liked, i'd buy the subscription if i had the money.
Knowledge is meant to be shared.

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by FourthWorld » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:34 pm

Lagi Pittas wrote:Here's A suggestion that will not only bring in the Moolah but also bring in the business developers.

Livecode using its stalwarts experience creates a sales, purchase nominal ledger with an invoicing module.
...
This model has (and still is used) by companies that have been going for years

foxpro
http://www.hallogram.com/vfpacct/

delphi
http://www.turbocashuk.com/index.html -- GPL'd

http://www.bravosoft.com/index.html
http://www.bravosoft.com/developerinfo.htm

http://www.adapta.com/AdaptAccounts.htm

Visual Basic
http://www.pcskills.net/pcsacct.htm
http://www.pcskills.net/pcsacctDK.htm

If Someone has written the above maybe come to an agreement with LC - you can't sell to 5 billion people and support them.
If I read those links correctly there's a difference between your proposal and those products: as far as I can tell, those products were made independently of the vendors of the toolkits used to make them.

Double-entry bookkeeping is one of those things that seems simple enough on the surface, but it doesn't take too long into the specifications process to discover why there are so few making them relative to the number of people using them. A good package not only needs to handle all aspects of GAAP well, but also have sufficient hooks to handle incoming data from operations and outgoing data for payroll and tax preparation, and all of that makes for an uncommonly expensive development process.

Complicating matters is the maturity of that market segment. Intuit pretty much owns the lion's share, with the minority subdivided among many other well-entrenched companies with solid funding.

Entering any mature market requires having sufficiently compelling differentiators, and sufficient marketing funds to make sure those differentiators are well and broadly communicated.

Given all this, it's not enough that the new entrant be good, or even great - it has to be unquestionably better than Intuit's best, because most businesses have already chosen their bookkeeping package when they got started, and new businesses tend to adopt whatever the market leader is for reasons Geoff Moore describes in "The Gorilla Game". With mature segments, the path to revenue isn't so much in selling people new software, but selling them software to replace an existing solution they're already heaviliy invested in.

I think your idea has merit, with a slight shift in focus:

The business software I've seen at client facilities over the decades tends to fall into two groups: operations and back office.

Operations covers the things that make the business unique, the process of making products or delivering services, such as inventory management, purchasing, manufacturing, etc.

Back office is the set of things common to all businesses, like accounting, office suites, email systems, etc.

Back office software has relatively few startup opportunities because, due to their common nature, they tend to favor mature products from large and well-funded companies who've already had many years to understand the customers' needs and address them thoroughly. This means that software in this category tends to require a level of feature completion that makes them uncommonly expensive to make, and competes with a large number of giants making the truly addressible market size rather small when we soberly consider all factors of adoption (Guy Kawasaki's talk here uses a dog food example throughout to drive that point home well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHjgK6p4nrw ).

Operations is a very different story. Here we find the ways companies distinguish themselves, where smart companies have already derived competitive advantage by creating unique processes that no off-the-shelf system can support well if at all. Custom software to support these custom processes can be a human performance multiplier, amplifying competitive advantage to maximize ROI.

Here's one example:

Many years ago I was contacted by an emergency pediatric specialist in Australia who'd built a set of tools for use in his clinic, and in partnership with another physician from Stanford they had the vision of turning this tool into a product so clinics around the world could benefit from a new form of decision support never previously seen. This is the sort of thing only a practitioner could envision, since it relies on an intimate understanding of the workflow in pediatric emergency care clinics. The result is PEMSoft, Pediatric Emergency Care Software.

Making the user experience had its own challenges, but the bigger challenge was creating a toolkit to support the authoring process, since medical protocols and practices change often as new research yields ever better methods. To keep the product current meant an ongoing process of refining and expanding content. Additionally, since the original toolkit was made in Australia the system had to support both US and UK standards for nomenclature and protocols, in effect a form of semi-automated content translation.

So we created a suite of authoring tools in a client-server system to allow a team of two dozen specialists from around the world to contribute to the product's content, outlined in this older LiveCode newsletter article:
http://newsletters.livecode.com/april/i ... etter2.php

A few years after launch the toolkit helped contribute to a successful execution of the company's exit strategy through acquisition:
http://hollywoodindustry.digitalmediane ... nt-2373477

One of the company founders also uses the software as a key component of a non-profit org he created to bring pediatric software to the developing world, Kids Care Everywhere, which the acquiring company continues to generously support:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRwlsG-PVCQ

I wish I could take all the credit for this, but frankly much of the credit goes to the good folks at LiveCode Ltd. Both of the doctors who founded the project have acknowledged time and again that without LiveCode to build the highly specialized tools needed to support and deliver such a highly specialized product, none of this would likely have been possible as most other tools would have made it cost-prohibitive.


TL/DR:

The biggest opportunities for small businesses software entrepreneurship are in vertical segments, and it's in these vertical segments that LiveCode shines most brightly.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by FourthWorld » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:45 pm

Newbie4 wrote:Your links illustrate my points exactly. If you dig into those resources and case studies, they are all over 5 years old.
This confuses me. I provided two links related to EDU at livecode.com, and the lead story at the first one, the EDU portal, is a blog entry dated Feb 15 of this year, and the second one is a listing of all blog entries tagged with "education" where the dates of the entries on the first page of search results are June 22, February 18, February 18, February 17, and February 13, all in this year.

The lack of newer materials, case studies and teacher posts since LiveCode became open source speaks volumes. With all the press and publicity of "Learning to Program", "Girls Who Code", STEM incentives, you hear or see nothing on LiveCode or anyone using it.
Agreed, and this is exactly why we've created the Community Education Outreach Team. If this sort of thing is of interest to you please consider sharing your ideas in the forum we've established for putting such initiatives into action:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=107
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

Newbie4
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Re: Recently we've been investing ....[SOLVED?]

Post by Newbie4 » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:29 pm

Even though the dates on the blogs entries were of this year, those were just rehashes of old articles. The first post, seemed to be a application written by a broadcasting team, not from a school. I disregarded that one as a school using LiveCode. The rest of the educational customers were old customers from way before the Community version of LiveCode.

Malawi - Sept. 2010 http://www.fiercewireless.com/press-rel ... n-iphone-i - "Andrew Ashe, managing director of EuroTalk, has been using LiveCode in the Digital Tools for Rural Schools campaign, creating iPhone/iPad-based learning applications for primary school students in Malawi, Africa...."

New York Law School is from 2008 http://newsletters.livecode.com/may/iss ... etter3.php.
Brigham Young has been using LiveCode since 2004, 2007,2008 (the dates of copyright on the training materials) http://livecode.byu.edu/

Gracemount High School has been using LiveCode since at least 2011, possibly before http://newsletters.livecode.com/march/i ... etter2.php
East Lothian is 2011-12 http://www.govopps.co.uk/livecode-educa ... t-lothian/.

All those customers I have read about from before I got started in LiveCode. They may have been around even longer than the dates above. The dates that I used, were ones that I could verify quickly with Google.

I was just reiterating my position that RunRev needs to do a better job at getting noticed and taken seriously, not only by developers but also people/students/schools/etc. It is revealing that they have to keep rewriting news from previous customers. Do not they have any case studies with the new Community version, news of schools adopting LiveCode into their curriculum, or even schools looking at it?

Sorry, I was not more clearer in my post
Cyril Pruszko
https://sites.google.com/a/pgcps.org/livecode/
https://sites.google.com/a/setonhs.org/app-and-game-workshop/home
https://learntolivecode.com/

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