LC8. Ugh, on the surface

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rinzwind
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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by rinzwind » Thu May 12, 2016 6:17 pm

Scrolling with the mouse scrollwheel is making the dictionary window go jerky/crazy.. at least on mac

russellf
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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by russellf » Thu May 12, 2016 9:49 pm

I must admit I prefer the v7 disctionary to the v8 one. Haven't really played with v8 one to tell about other things. Although on Windows the project manager doesn't seem to persist across restarts. Widgets are awesome tho.

zaxos
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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by zaxos » Fri May 13, 2016 9:56 am

Omg, this is like you copy paste my thoughts! Kevin's mails have convinced me to try ( for the fifth time ) the new LC 8 platform. The fact that i gave up to it for so many times has to mean something, it may be x10 better in the core but the interface is just not as inspiring as it used to be and that makes me wonder, is it just me because i'v been used to the old interface or it is really as bad as i think it is, plus i could not find any decent documentation on LC Builder so far. As for the future i'm certain that LC will conquer the world of coding. But i do understand that in order for the devs to continue developing this they have to make a profit out of it, the real question is, why would anyone pay for something if it is not going to make any money out of it? Why isn't there yet an online platform for people to sell their stacks? Why is the academy a paid service, why would someone pay for tutorials, the strength of Livecode is "simplicity" let people learn about it. You need serious people to work on it, people with big plans, not school projects if you want to make money.

As for the new big deal, LC Builder, i have a few libraries (league of legends,Dota 2, Counter Strike: Global offense, Blizzard, Dropbox, AuthO 2.0,mega.co.nz (API)) that i'd like to convert into LC builder language but i couldn't find any tutorials on this, not in LC forums,LC website or the dictionary(the new dictionary is just a PAIN). The new project browser is also giving me headaches, it fails to display correctly 95% of the time, i have to close and open it again every time i create a new control( a refresh button on it maybe?).
+ Why cant i share my stacks/libraries somewhere? isn't that the point? i couldn't find a place to do that yet.
+ At some point i wanted to replicate popular commercial apps and create tutorials for the community(that failed but not because of LC capabilities) and show the world that despite the simplicity of LC language, it is still capable of achieving big goals. Question is, why aren't there any serious tutorials?
Knowledge is meant to be shared.

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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by Lagi Pittas » Fri May 13, 2016 2:29 pm

Hi

Craig is being Nice here - i'd say the documentation is SH*t

I've just WASTED 3 hours trying to use the treeview.

If you throw enough sh*t against the wall it sticks - so I've managed to add and remove options - but where oh where are the actual instructions , examples even?

where is the option for clicking hiliting/selecting multiple lines? Do we have to code the resize as the tree fills up? Whats the best way of doing it so we don't waste time inventing the wheel.

I could have written what I wanted in 20 minutes on v6 - what is the point of a car that has a pointer to a button that says press and nothing else. I'm sorry the documentation wasn't the best to start with now we are back to the stoneage.

Come on for Gods sake, now that you aren't actively developing 6 and 7 and you have got rid of the "extra burden" of the extra development team you should have been getting the examples out there. Come on Neil and Ben , I'm sorry I must be thick or something. If the articles are there then you must have a don't index on the directory because Google doesn't know where they are.

And I was gonna throw in $100 to the infinite livecode today. I'll keep my powder dry a bit longer methinks.

Come on guys you are letting down the dev guys AGAIN!!

Oh yeah, I do think the new IDE is great not too bothered about the fancy colours I can have my Rose tinted Specs for that.

<end of Rant>


Back to version 6 for a bit - sorry lot longer it seems.

Lagi

sritcp
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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by sritcp » Fri May 13, 2016 2:45 pm

Re: Dictionary wish list

1. Several kinds of category-based searches: Structural (e.g., object types), Functional (Commands/ props/ keywords), Usage Context, etc.

2. Columns reduce visual clutter and make searches much easier (esp. for people like me with visual-spatial issues). Two levels of columns, to zero in quickly (I liked the old dictionary).

3. Keyword highlighting: The results of a keyword search should have the keywords highlighted in the body of each entry -- so, one can quickly eyeball the relevant sentences and eliminate the entry.

4. Color: Use of background color to set off important sections such as usage examples. Also, use of darker and lighter shade of text color to differentiate between main points and peripheral issues.

5. Tooltips: In the column view, hovering on an entry title should display a very brief info sheet.

Regards,
Sri

sphere
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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by sphere » Fri May 13, 2016 3:22 pm

I'm also missing the option to open the Stack script when clicking right mouse on an area of the stack, it was right there.
I have to go down and open the sub menu.
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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by Lagi Pittas » Fri May 13, 2016 5:12 pm

Hi

Sorry about the ranting above but I've put my pledge in anyways, but having bells and whistles without the docs to save time is just stupid.
If i can develop 10 times faster and lose that time in trying to find information I gain nothing. Are you listening Neil and Ben? - In that time you wrote the article about making $1.4 million with livecode you could have written a few articles on using the treeview widget in a realworld example.

I've nearly finished what I was working on using 5 list boxes instead in version 6.11 - probably will be easier to use as well.

Maybe with infinite livecode we might be able to wrap all the great Delphi Components as widgets.

But you still really need to sort out the docs

Lagi

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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by Simon » Fri May 13, 2016 6:06 pm

To bad that Björnkes BvG Docu 2 doesn't work on LC 8.
No dict.index array any more.

Simon
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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by richmond62 » Fri May 13, 2016 6:27 pm

I do think Livecode 8 has stepped back quite a bit re the interface:

1. Monochrome icons.

Wonder when the Livecode "Community" were consulted about
suddenly changing the icons to monochrome ones.

Hey, who was that saying; "We listen to the Community when it serves our interests and what
we've decided to do already, and we don't listen when the Community says things that go against what
we want." ?

Boy-Oh-Boy, am I hearing voices, or . . . . . .

2. The 8.0 Properties palette.

I mean, why completely redesign a whole component when, as far as one can tell, there
have been no complaints whatsoever.

and so on . . .

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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by jacque » Sat May 14, 2016 1:59 am

richmond62 wrote:
1. Monochrome icons.

Wonder when the Livecode "Community" were consulted about
suddenly changing the icons to monochrome ones.
The IDE uses an icon font now so that the icons will scale smoothly on any display. Fonts support only a single color.
2. The 8.0 Properties palette.

I mean, why completely redesign a whole component when, as far as one can tell, there
have been no complaints whatsoever.
It was absolutely necessary to rewrite the inspector to allow for dynamic loading of properties for widgets. When a widget is correctly written, it includes a description of its properties that the inspector reads and then creates a property pane on the fly that allows the user to edit the widget. This clever scheme allows users to install any number of arbitrary widgets and the property inspector will update automatically to create a pane for each widget's properties.

If you look at the inspector for, say, the browser widget you will see all the properties it supports and have the ability to edit them within the inspector without creating any scripts. That pane is generated dynamically by the new inspector. It's a pretty impressive capability.
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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by richmond62 » Sat May 14, 2016 8:00 am

Thanks, Jacque, for explaining those 2 points so clearly.

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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by dave.kilroy » Sat May 14, 2016 1:29 pm

Hi @sphere - the following shortcuts still work for me in LC8:

- Ctrl[Cmd on a mac] + Shift + s = opens the script of the current stack
- Ctrl[Cmd on a mac] + Shift + c = opens the script of the current card
- Ctrl[Cmd on a mac] + e = opens the script of currently selected control (when pointer tool is selected)

Plus all the other shortcuts such as Ctrl[Cmd on a mac] + c and Ctrl[Cmd on a mac] + Shift + c also still work - at least for me here on Mac 10.11 and Windows 7

Kind regards

Dave

sphere wrote:I'm also missing the option to open the Stack script when clicking right mouse on an area of the stack, it was right there.
I have to go down and open the sub menu.
"...this is not the code you are looking for..."

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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by livecodeali » Mon May 16, 2016 3:49 pm

richmond62 wrote: 2. The 8.0 Properties palette.

I mean, why completely redesign a whole component when, as far as one can tell, there
have been no complaints whatsoever.
Plus you also quoted me on why the new property inspector is how it is in this post
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25526

I'm not sure why you keep asking why when you're getting the same response.
sphere wrote: I'm also missing the option to open the Stack script when clicking right mouse on an area of the stack, it was right there.
I have to go down and open the sub menu.
If this doesn't work, it's a bug. Please file a bug report. It works for me. Perhaps it's specific to a particular platform? A bug report will make such things clear.

sritcp wrote:Re: Dictionary wish list

1. Several kinds of category-based searches: Structural (e.g., object types), Functional (Commands/ props/ keywords), Usage Context, etc.

2. Columns reduce visual clutter and make searches much easier (esp. for people like me with visual-spatial issues). Two levels of columns, to zero in quickly (I liked the old dictionary).

3. Keyword highlighting: The results of a keyword search should have the keywords highlighted in the body of each entry -- so, one can quickly eyeball the relevant sentences and eliminate the entry.

4. Color: Use of background color to set off important sections such as usage examples. Also, use of darker and lighter shade of text color to differentiate between main points and peripheral issues.

5. Tooltips: In the column view, hovering on an entry title should display a very brief info sheet.

Regards,
Sri
Please file an enhancement request, or multiple enhancement requests.
Lagi Pittas wrote:Hi

Craig is being Nice here - i'd say the documentation is SH*t

I've just WASTED 3 hours trying to use the treeview.

If you throw enough sh*t against the wall it sticks - so I've managed to add and remove options - but where oh where are the actual instructions , examples even?

where is the option for clicking hiliting/selecting multiple lines? Do we have to code the resize as the tree fills up? Whats the best way of doing it so we don't waste time inventing the wheel.

I could have written what I wanted in 20 minutes on v6 - what is the point of a car that has a pointer to a button that says press and nothing else. I'm sorry the documentation wasn't the best to start with now we are back to the stoneage.
I think you are talking about a separate issue to Craig, so a separate thread would perhaps be more appropriate. Craig was talking about the actual dictionary stack.
All of the properties of the tree view that exist are documented. There is no option for hiliting multiple lines. I'm not sure why you expected the first set of widgets we wrote to be able to do everything you want them to. But I do agree that we need some specific examples of how to use the tree view - we are trying to address this widget by widget by writing some blog posts
https://livecode.com/livecode-widgets-t ... ation-bar/
https://livecode.com/livecode-widgets-the-header-bar/
which could also form the basis of user guides.

I see there is an issue with the arrayData editor for it in the property inspector - this was also pointed out on the use list. I think I must have forgotten to include the improvements I made in the (very similar) custom properties editor.
Lagi Pittas wrote: Come on for Gods sake, now that you aren't actively developing 6 and 7 and you have got rid of the "extra burden" of the extra development team you should have been getting the examples out there. Come on Neil and Ben , I'm sorry I must be thick or something. If the articles are there then you must have a don't index on the directory because Google doesn't know where they are.
Lagi
Now that we have (slightly) more developer time, we can do more. It would be nice if that meant everything we need to get done went straight to the top of the list, but unfortunately there are still myriad competing priorities.

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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by livecodeali » Mon May 16, 2016 3:54 pm

On the dictionary in general, one of the reasons it was implemented as a single web page was because we had some problems with the browser widget and controlling navigation from outside. Now that we don’t particularly have that restriction, writing parts of the UI in LiveCode around a browser widget is much more feasible.

So, please submit bug reports and enhancement requests for anything you would like to see in the dictionary. The only thing I can guarantee you is that it won't get done if it's not on the radar of the developer doing it. The most effective way of achieving this is to submit a report.

There is a documentation API, so an enterprising member of the community could almost certainly hook that up to the old dictionary stack and create a plugin.

sritcp
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Re: LC8. Ugh, on the surface

Post by sritcp » Mon May 16, 2016 5:13 pm

Please file an enhancement request, or multiple enhancement requests.
Thank you.
Can anyone tell me how to do file an enhancement request? I haven't done one before.

Regards,
Sri

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