Continue to use Livecode ?

[Simon Knight]

when you reach the pricing section don’t tell me you wouldn’t be a bit tempted.

I was tempted before I arrived at the pricing section but I agree with your point - Panorama feels and most likely is a good deal. (60 months for $300)

I wonder how powerful its programming language and file handling is.

[richmond62]

I really don't know who has been advising LC re pricing over the last 22 years (that is as long as I have been watching), but the word that springs to mind is 'inconsistency'; and the whole history of their pricings looks like a long series of experiments: none of which have quite worked.

I wonder if 'this time' [if there is going to be a 'this time'] they will finally hit a 'sweet spot'?

Did nobody tell them that the most recent experiment would result in this sort of 'flack'? Rather than the money they so badly need to keep their heads above water, rolling in.

[Simon Knight]

but the word that springs to mind is 'inconsistency'

Agree, they sell at high prices then make special offers in the run up to Christmas and then there were all those schemes where we were asked to pay now for something in the future.

Lets not forget "the next best exciting thing" e.g. a thousand widgets by the end of the year (2017). The original Livecode Builder was buggy and I suspect that users have chosen Livecode to avoid having to delve into other languages such as Objective-C.

The Filemaker thing was announced to great fanfare but now seems to be a programming service buried on the web site.

The task of maintaining the code base across some many platforms is huge and I can't help wondering if it is to large for such a small team.

I don't mean to give out flack but I don't have a warm fuzzy feeling about the future judging by reduced activity taking place on this forum. I would be glad to be mistaken.

[dunbarx]

Simon.

Panorama feels and most likely is a good deal. (60 months for $300)
I wonder how powerful its programming language and file handling is.

Why does this seem like a bargain if you do not know what you are getting for your money? If it is as wonderful as LC, we should all think carefully about migrating and not looking back.

But I BET it is not.

Craig

[richmond62]

No newcomer will know anything about what they are getting judging by LC's website.

[stam]

Why does this seem like a bargain if you do not know what you are getting for your money?

You’re completely missing the point.
It’s not about the cost at 60 months, nor about what it can do - that’s practically irrelevant.

It’s about the payment structure and the fact that you can test flexibly without breaking the bank.

You can pay very small amounts individual months of use. But these don’t need to be consecutive months. You could use it for a month now and a month next year and it would still be valid. No apps stop working or any of that nonsense. You get what you pay for with no strings attached and the more you get the less you pay

The whole point of me bring this up at all is that you can test the waters and keep testing the waters as long as you want for a fair price. But if you reckon you want to invest for longer then the price effectively halves. And this 60 months could last you 10 years if you didn’t use it all that much. And if you don’t use it - well they made some money and you’re not terribly out of pocket. And if you do use it a lot you get large discounts.

I’d put money on LC actually getting more users in with this type of pay structure rather that the hopelessly flawed Starter licence.

As to what you can build with it - its internal language has all the trappings of modem languages. From what I’ve seen it’s designed to be English like but is not x-talk. It is Mac-only but you get proper UI with that. Plus for no additional cost you get server and ability to publish to the net. Its selling point always used to be and still is that the DB is RAM based and supposedly very fast. But it is really only for building database based stuff and is not a replacement for LC (just mentioning this given some defensive reactions).

I have a valid FMP licence so not really considering it just yet but can see myself trying it out at some point, especially when my FMP version stops work (likely with Sonoma).

I will add this: early in Sonoma beta, Panorama's CEO met with the Apple engineer who redesigned the menu system and got it sorted in July. There is a post on their forums about this. Not something LC can boast sadly… and perhaps illustrates a difference in focus.

---- EDITED ---- to clarify the last paragraph

[FourthWorld]

...FMP...
I will add this: early in Sonoma beta, their CEO met with the Apple engineer who redesigned the menu system and got it sorted in July. There is a post on their forums about this. Not something LC can boast sadly…

No one else can. FMP is an Apple company. It would be noteworthy if they didn't have a uniquely integrated relationship.

[stam]

...FMP...
I will add this: early in Sonoma beta, their CEO met with the Apple engineer who redesigned the menu system and got it sorted in July. There is a post on their forums about this. Not something LC can boast sadly…

No one else can. FMP is an Apple company. It would be noteworthy if they didn't have a uniquely integrated relationship.

Richard, I hope you didn't take away that FMP did this. That is NOT what I said.
I was talking about Panorama DB and their CEO - no integration or 'special' relationship with Apple. Yet they sorted this out early.

Unless I misunderstood your poorly snipped and misaligned comment snippets?
I've edited the post to remove any ambiguity.


And just to prove I'm not making stuff up: https://forum.provue.com/t/panorama-men ... onoma/6123

Hopefully none of you have installed Panorama X on macOS 14 Sonoma yet, or at least not for production use. So you’re not aware that Panorama menus behave very strangely on the new system. That’s the bad news. The good news is that I was able to speak today with the Apple engineer that rewrote the menu system for Sonoma, and he was able to duplicate and fix the bug. He promises that it will be fixed in the next developer beta version. Best WWDC lab experience ever!!

[FourthWorld]

...FMP...
I will add this: early in Sonoma beta, their CEO met with the Apple engineer who redesigned the menu system and got it sorted in July. There is a post on their forums about this. Not something LC can boast sadly…

No one else can. FMP is an Apple company. It would be noteworthy if they didn't have a uniquely integrated relationship.

Richard, I hope you didn't take away that FMP did this. That is NOT what I said.
I was talking about Panorama DB and their CEO - no integration or 'special' relationship with Apple. Yet they sorted this out early.

Unless I misunderstood your poorly snipped and misaligned comment snippets?
I've edited the post to remove any ambiguity.

Unintended. The previous paragraph mentioned only FMP, leaving "they" ambiguous. Apologies for the misinterpretation.

Carry on with your pricing missive...

[Simon Knight]

Why does this seem like a bargain if you do not know what you are getting for your money?

As Stam has already stated: whatever Panorama X is it offers a cheap way of finding out:

To start the 7 day free trial, simply download and copy to the Applications folder. You don't need to give us a credit card, email address or any other information, just get started. (Note: The 7 days of your free trial don't have to be consecutive.).

Consider if Livecode offered a similar X days free trial where the days were non consecutive thus giving a new user plenty of real time to get to know Livecode.

Does PanoramaX interest me ? Yes, most of my programming requires data manipulation and these days I'm only using a Mac so I imagine that I could put PanoramaX to good use. Not that I intend giving up on Livecode anytime soon.

[richmond62]

That pricing regime looks a lot more seductive than LC's.

However, LC have got themselves into a 'hole' isofar as if they change their pricing structure they are possibly going to have to reimburse some people who have recently paid big squidulicks for LC.

[Klaus]

If I hadn't a lifetime LC license, I would not be able to afford the new LC pricing anymore!

[richmond62]

You are fortunate that you grabbed it when it was available, and that LC continue to honour that.

[Klaus]

Yep, at that time I had money and could also support the LC hosting service, which bestowed a lifetime webhosting on me, too.
Today I have a very small pension and can hardly afford a set of new strings for my six-string bass.

Those were the days...

[richmond62]

You lucky sausage: I am 61 and cannot retire for another 6 years, as that's when my UK pension and my Bulgaria pension will kick in: and, as I say to parents who bring kids to my EFL school, "I love children: ideally with some salt, some garlic, and a squeeze of lemon, on the barbeque."

Of course Kevin looks as if he is at least 20 years away from that stage.

But Mark's curly locks have developed some grey highlights.