This is bull

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stuartls
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This is bull

Post by stuartls » Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:10 pm

I go to most places on runrev and can't print anything out like code. For example I have rev open go to Documentation. Then select "sample scripts". The the script chooser pops up. Funny thing is there isn't a way that I have figured out to print out the sample scripts. WHAT if I want to take a look at them and figure out how they work and learn a little more? Maybe I am doing something wrong, but in my humble opinion I have never seen such a program that doesn't make it easier for someone to learn. GUESS what rev creators. If I learn to ride a motorcycle on a Kawasaki and they teach me how to ride, then I will recommend that brand of motorcycle to all my friends and when it comes time to buy a new motorcycle guess where I am going? MAKE it easier for newbies to print out script. If I hit on any sample script in the online documentation I expect to be able to print it very easily. Heck if it wasn't for Marielle, Mark, and xApple in the forums I'd be just about lost.


Stu, (and not real happy right now)

oliverk
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Post by oliverk » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:10 am

Hi Stu,

When we designed the Sample scripts section of the Documentation, we were thinking along the lines of users copying the scripts to their own stacks and learning by experimenting with them, it seems that we did forget to consider a print button. I will add a request for this feature to the Quality Control Centre (http://quality.runrev.com).

Are they any other specific issues you have with the Documentation system?, we are always looking to improve the product and your feedback will be taken into account.

Regards

Oliver
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inselfan
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Post by inselfan » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:35 am

Holá Stu,

I agree 100%! RunRev forgot the newbies. Without more than just one helpfull hand from RR professionals I would never ever touch RR, which is a shame, because (with less bugs) it is a fantastic Platform

If it's hard for an well english spoken person to learn, what about those, who have also some problems with the english language?

RunRev, I think there is a lot to do to make your customers and specialy the Newbies happy...

Stu, I hope, you will get all help, you need from the pros here and wherever and I think this is a good place to say thank you all to the pros, who helped me in the past

Best regards

Horst

stuartls
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Post by stuartls » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:32 pm

Hey Oliverk.

Thanks for your reply. It is nice to know that you guys are at least listening. I hope that things that are discussed certainly get followed up on. I don't think that anyone in the forums or anyone who has purchased rev wants to come to the forums and have someone do all the programming for them. It has privided me with a pretty good tool to get insight and direction from those who are alot more savy than I. (Again, Mark, Merielle, and xApple). The part that scares me is "what if these people were not around"? I purchased Rev to develope some testing software for my real estate students. I liked the price, but was hooked on the "ease of developement" by both the advertisements and your sales department. Take for example an individual who has lived on a distance island. Lived there all his life. Suddenly a ship appears. A group of people come to shore and start talking to this hermit about what he needs to get along on the island a little better. He says he would like to be able to easily explore the island. They bring a car to shore, give him the keys, and a book entitled "How to drive". They leave. He has never seen an automobile. Has no idea what the keys are for and can't read. That is kind of where alot of new people are in a sence with Rev... Dan Shafers book on a scale of 1 to 10 rated about a 3 at best. Write a how to book or manual directed at the people who are new to programming. Heck call it "For the Rev Newbies". Programmers or programmer "want to bees" have to start somewhere. Why not with Rev? I don't want to learn C+, Java, Perl or something like that. Heck I used to program about 22 years ago in cobol and basic. I purchased rev because it looked like I was purchasing a Ferrari. Teach me how to drive it to its fullest and don't assume I know what the keys are for. Don't assume that I can read on the same "code" level as you. In the mean time make sure you hang onto the driving instructors in this forum.

Stu

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Post by FourthWorld » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:46 pm

stuartls wrote:I used to program about 22 years ago in cobol and basic.
How did you learn those languages?

stuartls
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Post by stuartls » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:54 pm

Took a college class with textbooks. In the computer lab the instructor was always there, or someone who was knowledgable in the language. Kinda of like here. The instructors are located in the forum, but I am after a better textbook!

Stu

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Post by FourthWorld » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:39 pm

stuartls wrote:Took a college class with textbooks. In the computer lab the instructor was always there, or someone who was knowledgable in the language. Kinda of like here. The instructors are located in the forum, but I am after a better textbook!
I hear you. Software books are sort of a catch-22: to get a publisher to sign on you need a substantially large audience, and to get an audience that large you first need a book.

I went around on this with SuperCard back in the day, and had discussions with a number of good publishers. The best deal we could find was one with an expensive "buy back" clause for SuperCard's owners, and at the time they couldn't make that commitment.

In lieu of a major publisher there's the self-publishing option, increasingly popular as print-on-demand technologies and Internet sales and marketing have helped lower the publishing threshold.

One difficulty with most software books is that they become outdated with the next major upgrade when the UI and features change. I did the tech edit for GoLive 5 Bible, and altough it was the second book that season to hit the shelves for GoLive, Adobe's upgrade schedule gave it a shelf life of less than a year.

Rev has an advantage over most software products because the UI is insignificant compared to the scripting language, which is mature and stable. A book focused on Transcript could have a much longer shelf life than anything that deals with the UI, ceertainly much longer than most software books.

I've been tempted to write one myself, and I'd probably contribute a chapter or two to one, but as most authors can tell you writing a book is so labor-intensive that the margins often compensate the author's time at somewhere close to minimum wage.

So while we wait for another book in addition to Dan's (which I think is a fine one, FWIW), at least the Rev community has an extensive collection of learning materials available:

- Online conferences available at runrev.com on nearly every major scripting topic

- Hundreds of example stacks; RR could do a better job of listing those at their site, but at least Marielle has started a strong effort to catalog and distribute them

- Regional user groups and training opportunities (I'll be offering a two-day Rev course in SoCal this quarter)

- The use-rev mailing list

- This forum

If you start with the online conferences I think you'll be pleased with what you learn:

http://support.runrev.com/scriptingconferences/

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Post by marielle » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:10 pm

If an "how to" approach was to be taken. What format would be most appropriate?

(I was considering creating a poll, but this option doesn't seem to be available anymore)

Wicked cool?

Demo chapter for Wicked java
Wicked cool shell scripts
Wicked cool perl scripts

Phrase Book?

PHP Phrasebook (Sample Chapters)

Hacks?

PHP Hacks (Sample Hacks)

Design Patterns / Interface Design?

Ajax Design Patterns (Sample chapter, pdf)
Designing Interfaces

oliverk
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Post by oliverk » Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:14 pm

Hi Stu,

The first thing I did to start learning Revolution was to watch all the video Tutorials, I found that after this i was pretty much able to start coding projects straight away, and although it takes a while to build up speed and start writing good quality code, with Revolution the learning curve can be at a very easy gradient.

If you haven't already tried this, it might be worth taking the time to watch the videos, I would value your feedback on how helpful they are greatly.

You can access the videos from the "Getting Started" section of the Documentation. The videos are found in the sections "Quick Start", "Using Objects" and "Using Scripts".

Regards

Oliver
Oliver Kenyon
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xApple
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Post by xApple » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:24 pm

For what it's worth when I started learning the language it was with this book that was kinda nice:

HyperTalk 2.2: The Book
by Dan Winkler, Scot Kamins, & Jeanne DeVoto
Random House 1994
ISBN 0-679-79171-X

It's not about Revolution but the defunct HyperCard... But the languages are the same... so if you think it's written with more talent, maybe try that one.

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