Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

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dunbarx
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Re: Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

Post by dunbarx » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:01 am

Bogs.

Table fields are not dataGrids, but are still powerful and compact. The whole point of such a gadget is that it is contains, right out of the box, its advertised format and functionality.

But whenever I make a new one, I have to first massage it as I laid out in that post you mentioned, otherwise it is simply not usable.

Anyway, I consider the long-standing table field "flaw" to be the single most egregious extant "bug" in LC. Just my own opinion, though.

Thanks for the compliment.

Craig

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Re: Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

Post by bogs » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:31 am

dunbarx wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:45 am
Bogs.
I've never encountered it myself,
The failure was always intermittent; you were lucky, I guess. This has driven me nuts for years, and seems to have been fixed in v9x.
Craig
Heh, I think you give me far too much credit in the luck department. It is more likely that I've never experienced it simply because nothing I'm writing is a **major project. I expect if everyone wrote small programs, it would never have been seen by anyone.

You (and probably most others here) write super sized programs and are more likely to be exposed to these excitements heh.
Table fields are not dataGrids, but are still powerful and compact. The whole point of such a gadget is that it is contains, right out of the box, its advertised format and functionality.
I completely agree, and you capsulized my entire point of the 2 posts up there.

You see, my line of reasoning is simply this, it doesn't matter if product xyz helps you to work faster if the end result is turning out something that you have to work around a good percentage to get to work as expected.

Me, you, Richard, and many others might not have as big a problem working around something because (for individual reasons) we were tenacious enough to figure out how to resolve (issue x) without fixing it. That doesn't apply to most beginners, though.

When a beginner picks up a tool, they expect that tool to work as intended. Can you imagine picking up a screw driver, and screwing in 100 screws, but 5% of the time the blade shape changed without warning?

You might figure out that all you have to do is lift your left foot when this happens, and the blade will change back, but until you figure that out I'm sure you'd probably throw the driver into the wall in disgust and go back to your less snazzy screw driver where this doesn't happen.

When I started trying to use Lc the first 6 times, that was exactly how I felt coming in from RB and FPC. I just found Lc fascinating enough to try it for a 7th time, and luckily had read enough by then to work around (what I consider) the weird stuff that had happened each previous time.

** My definition of major - exceeding 300 lines of code over multiple stacks.
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Re: Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

Post by richmond62 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:15 am

My experience has been that when I've had any version of LiveCode crash (and I want to differentiate 'crash' from 'freeze' here)
and I've started digging it has always been my fault.

I am a world expert at setting up loops with no get-out clause. 8)

There was an odd window that kept popping up on Linux, several versions back, that froze everything so badly
I generally had to reboot the computer: but it was dealt with by LC central pretty quickly, and for production
purposes until it was dealt with I just reverted to a previous version of LiveCode.

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Re: Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

Post by bogs » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:41 am

I am happy to say I only coded half a dozen loops that took the entire environment down before figuring it out :P

But, in this case, I am assuming that they are indeed talking about a 'crash', as happened to me a few times when I tried a new version, opened the IDE, and was dumped to the desktop immediately or received a system error.

Freezes are another thing entirely. If the freeze is code induced, it is one of the few times I wish I weren't using an 'always on' IDE, in the classic IDEs I am far more often able to stop the process than in Lc.
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Re: Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

Post by dunbarx » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:51 pm

To be clear, for me the word "crash" means that I get a dialog saying that LC has unexpectedly quit, and asks if I want to ignore that fact. I always ignore that fact.

Craig

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Re: Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

Post by bogs » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:53 pm

Yah, I would agree with that, with the dialog or not. When I say 'crash', I am referring to
Wikipedia wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_%28computing%29
In computing, a crash, or system crash, occurs when a computer program such as a software application or an operating system stops functioning properly and exits. The program responsible may appear to hang until a crash reporting service reports the crash and any details relating to it {--Ed. note, it may *not* report anything as well}.
<sic>
Most crashes are the result of executing invalid machine instructions. Typical causes include incorrect address values in the program counter, buffer overflow, overwriting a portion of the affected program code due to an earlier bug, accessing invalid memory addresses, using an illegal opcode or triggering an unhandled exception. The original software bug that started this chain of events is typically considered to be the cause of the crash, which is discovered through the process of debugging. The original bug can be far removed from the code that actually crashed.
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Re: Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:48 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:15 am
My experience has been that when I've had any version of LiveCode crash (and I want to differentiate 'crash' from 'freeze' here)
and I've started digging it has always been my fault.
Respectfully, I would say when it comes to crashes you - and any scripters - are blameless.

Of course scripting errors are another thing, but true crashes should ideally never be possible in any scripting language. The ideal such languages pursue is that the engine provides graceful degradation of even critical error conditions.

Of course this may never be fully achievable by any sufficiently complex system. But it is the guiding principle, and it never hurts to aim high.
Richard Gaskin
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Re: Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

Post by karmacomposer » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:20 am

I've been getting a lot of crashes when I try to undo something multiple times and when I try to edit or move groups. I tend to save a lot as a result. Using most current version. By crashing, I mean that Livecode simply goes away. Poof. Gone. I re-run it and load my project. Everything is there from most recent save. No code yet. Just editing GUIs on cards. I get about two or more crashes per 4 hours. Using a Surface Pro Book 2019 with 16gb ram, core i7, nvidia 1050gtx with 512gb ssd.

Mike

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Re: Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

Post by FourthWorld » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:17 am

karmacomposer wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:20 am
I've been getting a lot of crashes when I try to undo something multiple times and when I try to edit or move groups. I tend to save a lot as a result. Using most current version.
I haven't checked in a while. What is the most recent version?

Do your layouts have large images or other things that may consume lots of memory?
Richard Gaskin
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Re: Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

Post by trevix » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:43 am

I must say that the new LC 9.5.1 (RC1) is finally what I consider "stable".

The only crash I had, was with old extension and sometime because of the simulator (xCode10.1).
There is still some problem with copy and paste (of controls, group and sometime text) and, more important, the fact that the mouseloc gets misaligned (probably due to the fact that I have 2 monitors). When you grab and slightly move the window, it goes away.
Trevix
OSX 10.14.6 LC 9.6.0 Dp2 iOs 9.3>

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Re: Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

Post by AndyP » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:00 am

I've noticed a few times that if LiveCode appears to just shut down on its own, that its worth checking the Task Manager (Alt-Shift-Delete >Task Manager) just to make sure that there are no orphaned LiveCode background processes still running.
If there are and you start a new instance of LiveCode, then all sorts of stutters, crashes, palettes refusing to open/close start to appear.
Andy Piddock

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Re: Livecode crash on me more then 10 times a day

Post by karmacomposer » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:23 pm

Livecode (current version business license) just crashed. I was editing a table widget. Livecode crashes about 5 times or more per day for me as well.

Mike

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