LC8 user experience developing on Mac is seriously subpar

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Scoperzor
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LC8 user experience developing on Mac is seriously subpar

Post by Scoperzor » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:30 am

I can't speak for other platforms but my user experience developing in LC8 on Mac is atrocious, to the point where I am forced to abandon working with LC8 projects completely. This extends all the way up from 8.0.1 stable to 8.1.0 RC1. I have been developing with various versions of LC7 for about 18 months now, so I can say I have enough experience knowing how to perform most of the required tasks without too much struggle, and I feel like the experience is MANY steps backwards going to LC8.

A few of the major issues I have:
  • - Clicking on an object and/or clicking show in project browser on an object does not reflect which object this actually is in the project browser, often this does nothing.
    - In LC7 when I clicked on different objects with the property window already open, it would change to the new object, and if the same type of object it - would retain the currently selected tab, now this does not happen.
    - I cannot reliably move objects or groups around the card without them getting lost in random groups I moved the mouse nowhere close to.
    - I cannot delete objects at all unless I physically go to the top toolbar.
The list goes on and on. The Project Browser was so much sleeker, easy to navigate and easy to manipulate in LC7 that it's honestly just a nightmare trying to do the same in LC8. I previously submitted bug/feature reports on some of these issues and was told they had been fixed/implemented in versions gone by, but that's far from the truth. I'm wondering whether any of the testers actually even use LC8 on Mac at this point as it is so unbelievably difficult to remain productive in it. As a subscriber to the Business license I find this extremely concerning as support seems to be gradually shifting more to LC8 away from the older versions.

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Re: LC8 user experience developing on Mac is seriously subpa

Post by FourthWorld » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:26 pm

What did they say when you sent this letter to support?
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Re: LC8 user experience developing on Mac is seriously subpa

Post by jacque » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:00 pm

For sure let the team know. In the meantime you might want to try the Application browser instead. This is the older overview that many of us still use. You can find it in the Plugins menu as revApplicationOverview.

It doesn't have all the newer features of the project browser but it's stable and I find it easier to navigate.
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: LC8 user experience developing on Mac is seriously subpa

Post by mwieder » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:36 pm

What Jacque said.
The (deservedly so) much-maligned Application Browser is more stable and usable than the PB. Like the OP, I find it hard to believe that anyone could actually use the Project Browser for any real work. I keep trying to make my peace with it, and always end up reverting to the Application Browser.

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Re: LC8 user experience developing on Mac is seriously subpa

Post by FourthWorld » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:14 pm

It's nice that LC continues to provide both, but personally I've found the Project Browser so much more productive it's the first object browser they've delivered that weened me from using my own tools.

As for the OP, I would suggest using v8.1RC2. Many fixes since RC1, including a few specific to the PB (though of course you can use the AB if you prefer).
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Scoperzor
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Re: LC8 user experience developing on Mac is seriously subpa

Post by Scoperzor » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:53 am

I guess it's a legacy thing, I'm used to the way the Project Browser looks and feels, and prefer the structure of the groups and object names to that of the Application Browser. My hope is that the LC8 Project Browser will eventually resemble that of the one in LC7.

I've sent 2 issues through that were contained in my original post, but I'll consider sending this through together to them as well.

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Re: LC8 user experience developing on Mac is seriously subpa

Post by mwieder » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:50 pm

I agree that I like the way the PB looks, but not the way it feels.
I like the fact that I can sometimes move controls around (if I position them just right) into or out of a group.
I don't like the new paradigm of having to double-click to select, and what's selected isn't always obvious.
Some functionality is just missing.
I haven't found any way to remove a control from within the PB.
Or to copy a control to paste a copy somewhere else.
I still don't know with the lock icon next to the eyeball is for. They both have the same tooltip ("Hide").

And still too buggy to use on a regular basis.
Click the gear icon.
Select Object Type Indicator.
Select either Text or Icon.
The PB goes blank.

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Re: LC8 user experience developing on Mac is seriously subpa

Post by FourthWorld » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:58 pm

mwieder wrote:And still too buggy to use on a regular basis.
Click the gear icon.
Select Object Type Indicator.
Select either Text or Icon.
The PB goes blank.
Here it displays according to what I'd selected. Is there any other step I might need to take? Which version do you see that with?
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Re: LC8 user experience developing on Mac is seriously subpa

Post by mwieder » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:32 pm

That's 8.1-rc2 on OSX El Capitan.
I filed it as http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18341 and Panos confirmed it with a couple extra steps, although I didn't have to go through all that.

Scoperzor
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Re: LC8 user experience developing on Mac is seriously subpa

Post by Scoperzor » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:38 am

Wednesday, 07 September 2016 at 11:59 AM

Dear x,

Thank you for writing to the help desk for LiveCode. This is an autoresponse. Your message has been received and assigned a ticket number. We will get back to you as soon as possible.
Friday, 09 September 2016 at 10:35 AM

This ticket LC8 usability issues [...] has been closed.
It seems the feedback is not wanted.

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Re: LC8 user experience developing on Mac is seriously subpa

Post by LCNeil » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:17 am

Hi Sean,

Your feedback is very much appreciated and we did reply to your tech support query. Only after we responded did we close the ticket :)

Please find a copy of our response below-

-------
Dear **name removed**,

Thank you for your report.

I have read the forum thread. If you still see issues relating to a bug that
you have reported, and that has been marked as fixed, then please do re-open
that bug report and add your new information. It is essential that people do
this in order for us to make the Project Browser as stable and useable as
everyone desires. There are so many platforms, variants, different ways of
using things, even the different software you have installed on your computer
can affect behaviour. It is impossible for our team to test every real world
combination themselves, they need your help to find these issues and get them
fixed.

The Project Browser is a major new piece of technology. All such large changes
are bound to take longer to bed in than smaller ones. They need all the help
they can get from the community to shorten that process and ensure that
everyone is heard and can use the new technology. Unfortunately, writing this
kind of ticket to support isn't going to have the desired result. We need
precise, detailed reports on EXACTLY what went wrong, what the hardware and
software is, what you were doing at the time... There is literally nothing I
can do with a report like this except to mention to the dev team that there is
dissatisfaction with the Project Browser. There is nothing they can do about
such a sentiment without those detailed reports.

The Quality Center is your friend. Please do use it. Our team read it every day
and act on the reports there.

http://quality.livecode.com

Regards,

Heather
-------

Kind Regards,

Neil Roger
--
LiveCode Support Team ~ http://www.livecode.com
--

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