[solved] Bye Livecode

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kodkodd
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[solved] Bye Livecode

Post by kodkodd » Thu May 16, 2019 1:54 am

I really like the vision of livecode but it's hard for me to follow all the tutorials. To create HelloWorld apps, it doesn't work properly on Windows 7 or 10. It works fine on Ubuntu. But I found some errors. like LCB object error. Maybe livecode is not suitable for me.

My background is android developers are familiar with java. But to get started, Livecode is difficult and I can't find answers through Google.

Maybe it's flutter good for me to do multi-platform development. Thank you for your vision but it's hard for me to follow everything.

OS: Windows 7 64bit, Windows 10 64bit
Ubuntu 18.04. LTS
Livecode Indy 9.0.3 (trial)
Livecode Community 9.0.3
Last edited by kodkodd on Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by dunbarx » Thu May 16, 2019 3:12 am

I hope you do not give up on LiveCode just yet.

And like any large endeavor, Livecode has a learning curve. But at its core, it is so conversational that it is hard for me to believe that almost anyone cannot learn its structural foundation and build from there. Once you do get that foundation, the task of becoming proficient is very short indeed.

Why not post a couple of questions or problems you are having, and we can talk about the?

Craig Newman

kodkodd
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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by kodkodd » Thu May 16, 2019 3:25 am

thank you for your response. I never gave up in learning programming. I am interested in livecode how syntax is like writing in English. but to start HelloWorld apps is difficult and doesn't work. I have followed the tutorial and it doesn't work as well.


this is my previous post

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32464

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32609

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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by ghettocottage » Thu May 16, 2019 3:37 am

No need to say goodbye. It is okay to take a break and explore other options, but you might find that Livecode fits some projects better than others.

I usually just write in PHP and use existing CMS such as Wordpress to fit most of my projects, but Livecode has unique tools and features that work well for other projects, particularly database projects.

I confess I had some frustrations at first several years ago when I first started using Livecode, but once I figured out a basic structure I now enjoy working with it.

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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by FourthWorld » Thu May 16, 2019 3:42 am

kodkodd wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:25 am
...but to start HelloWorld apps is difficult and doesn't work.
What specifically does "doesn't work" mean?
I don't see a reply after Jacque's suggestion in that thread. Did you try it?
I've been unable to reproduce that, and just posted a question there for you.
Richard Gaskin
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kodkodd
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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by kodkodd » Thu May 16, 2019 3:44 am

how to start helloworld and build apk. After that install apk on my android phone. Apk force closed. what's wrong with my steps.?

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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by FourthWorld » Thu May 16, 2019 4:02 am

kodkodd wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 3:44 am
how to start helloworld and build apk. After that install apk on my android phone. Apk force closed. what's wrong with my steps.?
Hard to say. But it's not like the tutorials are just random collections of words that no one has ever actually completed. Each one is written based on direct experience, and then tech-edited to ensure the steps work, and many users have followed them without issue.

So like all things in computing (and much of life), when we encounter an issue we need to identify the differences between the working and non-working states.

It's cumbersome to get log data from a phone, but diagnostic info is easier in the emulator. Have you been able to run it in the emulator?

Also, have you tried using the latest version, LC 9.0.4, just released this week? Maybe some of those bug fixes may affect what you've experienced.
Richard Gaskin
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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by richmond62 » Thu May 16, 2019 7:41 am

I've had some similar experiences throughout my life: the type of person
who wants spoon-feeding and isn't prepared to make any effort themselves,
and then complains because there isn't enough honey on the spoon.

I, generally, kick about 4-5 kids out of my school for being passive whiners. 8)

Those kids who stay with me and get over the initial "hump" go on to great things!

This is the same for almost everything in life: LiveCode included!

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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by Mikey » Thu May 16, 2019 2:29 pm

I completely agree that someone should be appointed to take control of onboarding, and that includes documentation, videos, tutorials, examples, etc., and it should be completely rebooted.
No, I am not volunteering.

bogs
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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by bogs » Thu May 16, 2019 2:41 pm

Mikey wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:29 pm
I completely agree that someone should be appointed to take control of onboarding
...
No, I am not volunteering.
You don't have to volunteer, I'll be happy to nominate you! :D
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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by Mikey » Thu May 16, 2019 3:20 pm

It needs to be done like it's important, which means someone needs to be paid to do it. That won't be me.

bogs
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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by bogs » Thu May 16, 2019 4:20 pm

Just in case it wasn't clear, I was only kidding around, but I do agree with what you said, and that it is pretty important if we want this language to grow in usage.
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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by FourthWorld » Thu May 16, 2019 6:03 pm

Mikey wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:29 pm
I completely agree that someone should be appointed to take control of onboarding, and that includes documentation, videos, tutorials, examples, etc., and it should be completely rebooted.
There's good room for improvement, but it may be helpful to review where we've come from to consider options going forward:

The start screen was added several versions back to provide immediate can't-miss-it availability of prominent learning resources.

The interactive tutorial prompted on first-run was a big step forward for introducing both object model concepts and IDE workflow.

The consolidation of the formerly-separate language-learning elements into the new Dictionary window was a significant undertaking to make resources more discoverable and accessible.

And even small details like re-ordering the items in the Help menu to better reflect frequency of need among new users helps.

So it's not like the team has been sitting still on this. And even with work done to date, there is of course always plenty of room for all products to further improve.

To guide that, what specifically would "rebooted" mean?

And assuming it involves non-trivial effort, which development efforts would you like to see the team suspend to reassign resources to this?
Richard Gaskin
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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by Mikey » Thu May 16, 2019 7:45 pm

If someone is not on LC's BOD and is not privy to the financials and confidential c-suite information, they are not in a reasonable position to discuss resource allocation.
If they are on the BOD, they should not be discussing any of that information publicly.
So, I can't or I won't answer the question about priorities because either I can't or I won't.
I think a "reboot" would be assigning a person or team the responsibility, authority, resources and materials related to converting and onboarding. That person or team would get ownership and control of the manuals, videos, websites, forums, mailing lists, sample stacks, introductory offers and pricing, training, mentoring, and whatever else could be reasonably construed as being related to that one goal - turning clicking the "Download" button into a big grin every time the LC splash screen comes up.

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Re: Bye Livecode

Post by FourthWorld » Thu May 16, 2019 8:45 pm

Mikey wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:45 pm
If someone is not on LC's BOD and is not privy to the financials and confidential c-suite information, they are not in a reasonable position to discuss resource allocation.
Perhaps. But if the person is a Community Liaison and has many ongoing discussions with the core team, we have reasonable assurance that such input is not entirely uninformed. :)

We also know this of all of life: the planet is finite, human life is finite, days are of fixed length. Nothing in the realm of human affairs is infinite, so everything involves tradeoffs.

Whether we're making our own business plans, or contributing to a Linux distro, or advising other people's business, every cost also carries an opportunity cost. That is, there's the direct cost of the proposed undertaking, and the indirect cost of no longer having those resources also available for other opportunities.

Accounting for the tradeoffs inherent in human activity is not generally considered controversial or at all exotic. It's how all organizations remain viable and grow.
I think a "reboot" would be assigning a person or team the responsibility, authority, resources and materials related to converting and onboarding. That person or team would get ownership and control of the manuals, videos, websites, forums, mailing lists, sample stacks, introductory offers and pricing, training, mentoring, and whatever else could be reasonably construed as being related to that one goal - turning clicking the "Download" button into a big grin every time the LC splash screen comes up.
That's an excellent vision, one which everyone, in the community and within the sponsor company, supports.

To fulfill that vision requires refining general sentiments into actionable proposals.

The team responsible for onboarding exists, as evidenced with the continuing evolution of the onboarding process within the product, such as the examples provided above, along with the web site and other external communications. Indeed, even the pricing, though some complain about the frequency of change, has those changes as a direct result of ongoing engagement with current and prospective users.

This isn't to say that what we have today is the best it can possibly be. On the contrary, it merely evidences an ongoing commitment to continual improvement, where improvement becomes concrete goals assessed for tangible results. Everything can always be improved.

As Community Liaison, part of my role is to help steward input from the community for improvement of the product experience.

Where such guidance is provided in specific actionable terms, I remain committed to doing so.


By way of example:

From time to time over the years we've seen suggestions like "The web site should be better", but rarely specifying what "better" means.

As a fellow business owner, to me "better" means moving more visitors through the funnel with the least friction possible. So talking with prospective users in a sort of mini-study, and comparing that with research on programming language adoption and technology adoption in general, we find a key emotional component with getting a potential new user's attention, which we could summarize as "Who's using this, and what are they building with it?"

I worked with Steven Crighton, LC's Marketing Manager, to provide input on what is now the "Customer Stories" section of the site. And to make it as visible as it merits, it was moved to the primary navigation, currently the second link in the site's header.

But I felt it would be even more useful to find a way to provide comforting reassurance of real-world use across the site, on as many pages as possible, yet in ways that don't distract from each page's purpose. After discussing this with Steven, for quite a while now you'll see that most pages on the site include a quote from a member of our community who's used LiveCode to deliver products. So throughout the experience of using the site to learn more, visitors get a sense of real people getting real work done powerfully with LiveCode.

"Make it better" is not actionable.
"Add a customer quote to each page" is actionable.

"Make the customer stories more visible" is not actionable.
"Move the customer stories link to the top of the taxonomy, as far to the left in the main menu as practical" is actionable.

As a second example, I have time schedule at the conference with Mark Waddingham to explore options for enhancing community engagement. Of course, scheduling a meeting is a small effort, but it's a very specific one, a practical step that contributes to the process of continued improvement.

I enjoy this sort of volunteer work, because when things align it produces useful, tangible results.

I'm happy to help others do the same. Let's create a thread for specific proposals, flesh them out, and present them.
Richard Gaskin
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