Very Hard to learn for beginner

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dunbarx
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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by dunbarx » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:17 am

gurusOnWheels.

You have never answered any of my or Richard's questions. Have you scanned the User guide or the Dictionary at all? If you have, and cannot get a hold of LC, then at least I understand that. But I still have no idea if you have taken the initial steps we outlined for you. At all.

It is perfectly OK for you to not come aboard this programming environment. But I simply do not know if you have tried. At least tell us that.

Craig

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by FourthWorld » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:56 am

sritcp wrote:
richmond62 wrote:The "problem" with your initial posts was their tone rather than their content.
If "tone" is the problem, isn't the appropriate response trying to tone it down rather than escalate it?
Well said, Sri. Thank you.
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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by FourthWorld » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:59 am

gurusonwheels wrote:
FourthWorld wrote:gurusonwheels, of the User Guide chapters I suggested above (included in the IDE installation), how many of those have you read?
i think maybe ill go back to autoit . seems those people do not attack there members ....
i wish you all good luck .
And to you as well.

I apologize if my question seemed pointed in any way. My intention was merely to try to assess where you were with the leaning materials you have in hand.

There are many programming languages, with new ones invented every year. No single one of them will be best for everyone; each brings something new to the table.

If you find yourself needing multi-platform GUI development of the sort LiveCode is quite good for, you're welcome here anytime.
Richard Gaskin
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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by Lagi Pittas » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:10 pm

Well Richard,

If GurusOnWheels thought your question was an attack .....

<removed 5 different endings because they definitely would be taken the wrong way>

Lagi

p.s. And I scrapped my answer to tell him to keep going with some friendly help and suggestions - can't be bothered now!!

You Sir are a Gentlman and your sincere question was taken as an attack?!!! :o :shock:

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by richmond62 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:10 pm

Some of us are too combative and some of us are too conciliatory, and some people are never satisfied whatever,
so the best thing to do is stump off somewhere else and get on with more important things.

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by FourthWorld » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:30 pm

Well, in all fairness it may simply be that gurusOnWheels was referring to another post when he was replying to mine. Nested/quoted/threaded forum discussions often lend themselves to misunderstandings that would be far less likely to occur if we were talking in person.

Let's all try to assume good intentions here.
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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by richmond62 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:45 pm

I do hope that gurusOnWheels can see it that way, and after our "little cafuffle" we can all be friends, even
if at arms length :)

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by AxWald » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:53 pm

Hi,

maybe we can learn something of it?
  1. The dataGrid should come with a BIG, FAT RED ALERT: "This is a very sophisticated piece of software and should be left alone, for a while, by all newcomers - for their own mental sanity!"
  2. Newcomers should not be pointed to developer previews or other not-yet-stable versions or features (widgets, HTML5, LCB). LC should have a rock solid, tested, mostly bug free "Reference version" for this reason. And this doesn't have to bleeding edge.
My two cents.

Have fun!
Livecode programming until the cat hits the fan ...

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by gurusonwheels » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:27 pm

AxWald wrote:Hi,

maybe we can learn something of it?
  1. The dataGrid should come with a BIG, FAT RED ALERT: "This is a very sophisticated piece of software and should be left alone, for a while, by all newcomers - for their own mental sanity!"
  2. Newcomers should not be pointed to developer previews or other not-yet-stable versions or features (widgets, HTML5, LCB). LC should have a rock solid, tested, mostly bug free "Reference version" for this reason. And this doesn't have to bleeding edge.
My two cents.

Have fun!
agreed .

end reply to quote
---------------------------------------


but i only want livecode to make one app at this point and it has to have information laid out like excel .
hince why i chose livecode was for datagrid itself .

to the other guy / yes i read and read until im blue in the face . but it really has not told me me much . and following through with the interactive thing did not do much for me as
a 1 year old can follow instructions click this click that move this .. at no time are you being told why your doing what your doing .

just seems the developers assume you can read between the lines ....

like they tell you how to create a datagrid .. but then do not come out and tell you that it will not save between opening .
then you find out that you must save and open and people direct you to that information .

however at no point are there any examples of how to put the 2 items together .

hence why i said this is not for a beginner at all . documentation is scattered at best .

yes there is other post on here when i was refering to people getting hostel .
if they dont have anything nice to say then why say it ?

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by ClipArtGuy » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:55 pm

AxWald wrote:Hi,

maybe we can learn something of it?
  1. The dataGrid should come with a BIG, FAT RED ALERT: "This is a very sophisticated piece of software and should be left alone, for a while, by all newcomers - for their own mental sanity!"
  2. Newcomers should not be pointed to developer previews or other not-yet-stable versions or features (widgets, HTML5, LCB). LC should have a rock solid, tested, mostly bug free "Reference version" for this reason. And this doesn't have to bleeding edge.
My two cents.

Have fun!

I would add a third -- "Newcomers should be directed to the FREE open source community version, where they can learn the ins and outs before deciding if the significant investment in a commercial license is right for them"

To GuruOnWheels:

In regards to the datagrid, the fact that a standalone cannot save itself is not a limitation of LiveCode, but just the way operating systems work. A standalone will not be able to save changes to itself no matter what language you use.

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by dunbarx » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:58 pm

@gurusOnWheel.

Is that what you meant? No executable can save itself on any platform. There are simple methods to save stacks in LC, but I was not sure that was one of your issues.

By the way, glad to see you are sill here...

I think you should make a calculator or address book. I always think that with new users. You get to learn by doing, which is the best way. Do not think such little gadgets are beneath you. As you build them, you will find yourself going to the dictionary and user guide, and this forum, for help. You will need all of that. At the end, you will be reasonably proficient, and can move to the next level.

Craig

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by Hans-Helmut » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:20 pm

Well, I think for beginners some of the jargon may be difficult to understand, sometimes. What does "IMHO" mean for example? Is it a technical term? Many people here use such capital written words. (I know, it means "in my humble opinion". But does everybody know?) For non-native English speaking LC users, it is sometimes hard to understand what people mean. Maybe an easily accessible LiveCode Acronym dictionary could also help us beginners. :D :)

And to not understand sarcasm or jokes or irony - it can lead to international conflicts !!! :roll:
:wink:

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by dunbarx » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:53 pm

IMHO is not a LC term, it is eMail slang, like "IIRC" (if I remember correctly) or "LOL".

The only one I ever use is in onLine Scrabble, "ICIYW" (I'll change if you will). By the way, "ROTFL" (rolling on the floor laughing) is not at all the same as "rotl" a unit of weight.

Craig

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by Hans-Helmut » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:57 pm

Regarding the data grid, I somehow understand, more or less, where the problem lies. I think it is not too hard using the dg "as is" without going into much of the template set-up. I also had my learning curve. But to get it running as a simple list of values without changing behavior or trying to place buttons or pictures is something that can be achieved in a couple of hours.

Then the problems start. What in heavens sake is a "template group"? And how to access such group? And what is a group in LiveCode? It is not just combining some controls together. And what means "background". And when you open it, it looks like nothing is there. What does a template group do? Or for what is it actually used? And then you should do some scripting. And what does this script actually do? And there are behaviors. What is a behavior?

For international beginners, it is harder because a lot of new and eventually strange terminology is used which you only understand knowing all the trees of the wood. So, how to know everything first to understand the detail?

I think the data grid could be explained for beginners assuming that they do not know anything about templates, groups, behaviors, and the architecture of a data grid could also be explained not assuming the student already understands technical LiveCode terminology.

How would someone understand how a combustion engine works? And then you ask a beginner to tune up such engine?

Nevertheless, someone who really wants to learn it will be able to learn it. As with playing tennis, you start loving it when you play it for a while and have mastered the basics. The joy comes from doing.

I started to love LiveCode because I am using it (so far more or less still as a hobby) - and often enough I am also stuck. But when something is working after lots of trials and errors - well, there is a big reward :D - and I can be proud with myself, and I have learned something about my own thinking process and mind.

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Re: Very Hard to learn for beginner

Post by Hans-Helmut » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:12 am

Regarding my previous post ... of course, I would also like to see a data grid that can be used more intuitively. Just drawing it up, placing objects such as fields, icons, pictures, etc. into it, and in browse mode, it would just be running when fed with data.

Maybe there will be a widget allowing to do this. And maybe, more of such pre-defined and pre-made and already functional objects would allow users to get into LiveCode.

On the other side, I would not like to compromise with the ability to change any and every detail of a widget through Livecode Script (LCS). In this sense, the current data grid is powerful and allows us to script it the way we want it to go.
Last edited by Hans-Helmut on Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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