Tools Palette likes to disappear

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bsnipes
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Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by bsnipes » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:54 am

I am using LiveCode on ArchLinux (Plasma) and on Windows 7 Pro x64. On Arch, the tools palette hides itself constantly. For instance, if I pop open the code or inspector dialogs, there is a 50% chance that the Tools palette will go away. Then I have to go to Tools->Project Browser or Message Box or some other random menu item for it to reappear. It is still checked as being available in the menu items but I don't believe unchecking and rechecking Tools Palette does anything (I am not at the Linux desktop right now but do recall testing that).

On Windows 7, it is much less frequent but happens from time to time. On Windows, you can see it disappear by opening a new stack, choosing File->Save and hit Cancel. In Windows it does reappear when clicking anywhere but why does it disappear in the first place when the stack window doesn't? I have only ever used 9.0 and now 9.0.1 and the issue exists in both. Has this behavior always been in the IDE?

I have noticed on Windows if I reset all preferences to default, the grey background that fills the entire screen goes away (makes it look like GIMP before single-window mode) and then the Tools Palette is always visible. When I restart LiveCode the huge grey background is back and so is the palette issue.

Is there some trick I am missing to make it stay always visible?

Edit- I am on 9.0.1 on Linux and 9.0.0 on Windows.

ghettocottage
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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by ghettocottage » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:35 pm

I use Ubuntu 18.04, and Livecode 9. My DE is Kubuntu Desktop.

After much dinkering, I found that if I dedicate a single Virtual Desktop to Livecode, and have the backdrop enabled, then my tool-bar does not disappear and everything works fine.

Plus, it is sort of nice having my all my LC stuff isolated to that desktop.

bogs
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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by bogs » Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:09 pm

bsnipes wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:54 am
... I have noticed on Windows if I reset all preferences to default, the grey background that fills the entire screen goes away (makes it look like GIMP before single-window mode) and then the Tools Palette is always visible. When I restart LiveCode the huge grey background is back and so is the palette issue.
I think your issue is having the backdrop up, and the tools palette goes behind it during one of those events.

Couple of things to test that theory out.
..1. go to the 'view' menu and turn off the backdrop. You mentioned when it is off you no longer loose the tools palette, so this would be the primary solution.
..2. when you loose the tool palette, alt + tab until it pops up from behind the backdrop. Depending on how your DE displays the icons, it will be easy or hard to tell when you've reached it.

Me, I always turn off the backdrop. It was off by default in earlier versions, and I find it more a distraction than a help after trying it for a week.
Image

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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by ghettocottage » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:12 pm

My experience is that if you have other applications open in the same desktop, then focusing gets confused and the tool palette will start vanishing.

I run into this if I have the backdrop on or off.

Having a Virtual Desktop with only Livecode open and the backdrop on seems to solve it.

As soon as I open any other application in that desktop, the tool palette is gone.

bsnipes
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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by bsnipes » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:19 am

Thanks all. I will try it with the backdrop disabled and on a separate desktop on Linux. It was driving me NUTS!

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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by wsamples » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:33 am

There is some discussion of this issue in this thread:

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=31398

I run Antergos (based on Arch) with Plasma and have this problem. It happens on every distro I've tested with Plasma. There are worse problems on some (but not all) distros running Xfce, including Antergos. Cinnamon on Antergos runs without issue. Keeping the backdrop up makes the problem much less frequent. Depending on usage, you might not see it ever with the backdrop but it can return when running certain plugins and/or with a lot of stacks open. The problem was introduced in LC 9, and does not occur in any previous versions. Good luck!

dntknwjck
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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by dntknwjck » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:26 pm

Trying hard to convert everything to Linux from Windows.
I have been experimenting with LC for a couple of weeks and have found it interesting.
Just installed 9.0.3 stable and this problem still exists.
This problem has existed for at least 2 version in the Linux IDE and don't understand why it hasn't been fixed yet. If this is representative of how LC responds to problems for the Linux platform am not sure this is a good choice for me.
Does anyone know why this has not been corrected?

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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:18 pm

dntknwjck wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:26 pm
Trying hard to convert everything to Linux from Windows.
I have been experimenting with LC for a couple of weeks and have found it interesting.
Just installed 9.0.3 stable and this problem still exists.
This problem has existed for at least 2 version in the Linux IDE and don't understand why it hasn't been fixed yet. If this is representative of how LC responds to problems for the Linux platform am not sure this is a good choice for me.
Does anyone know why this has not been corrected?
Linux represents, optimistically, about 3% of desktop market share, and produces licensing revenue far below that given the nature of the Linux audience (I know, I've been a full-time Ubuntu user for nearly 10 years). Moreover, differences among Linux versions and distros make it uncommonly expensive to develop for and support. Just the same, the team invests disproportionately favorably in the Linux engine, and we see many issues resolved quickly.

Additionally, reported issues tend to get addressed in order of severity and impact. Relatively few use the backdrop feature on any platform, so while we'd all like to see this addressed it's less urgent than keeping up with OS changes across the various platforms for features most folks use daily.

This one with the backdrop has been outstanding for a while, but was fixed in a recent build, apparently regressed. I'll see if I can dig up the bug report on this and steward it forward.
Richard Gaskin
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bogs
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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by bogs » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:44 pm

There would be a lot more specific information you'd have to provide for even a little bit more specific information on possibly working around or solving the problem as well.

As Richard obliquely mentioned, 'Linux' covers a lot of ground. Which particular distro? Lc provides support for Ubuntu (mainly), other distros *may* be workable, but aren't the main thrust. After distro, desktop and window manager become the next questions. 32 or 64 bit is of less importance in the equation.

For what it is worth, on many distros it works "OK" on the gnome desktop. XFCE is more problematical, as stated above. Me, I nix the backdrop first chance I get. If you *really* want a backdrop though, and can't live without it, just pop up a light weight picture viewer, like nomacs behind the IDE with your favorite picture loaded.

At least that won't pop up in front of the IDE palettes at the drop of a hat :wink:

Image
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dntknwjck
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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by dntknwjck » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:36 am

I am currently using:
Linux Mint 18.3 "Sylvia" - Cinnamon (64-bit)
One other problem I am having but is not appropriate for this forum is:
Unable to load the documentation with Firefox from the menu bar icon or the script editor.
Can load it directly into Firefox however by double clicking /home/t/.runrev/documentationcache/9_0_3_community/api.html
I know Linux is not a main stream platform, but as more and better software is produced it will continue to grow.

bogs
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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by bogs » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:25 pm

That is more helpful, as Mint falls under the supported distros. Want to make sure you are aware of the bug reporting system, I know I wasn't for several months when I first got here.

There are listings for the backdrop issues, adding your experiences to them keeps you in the loop (i.e. you'll be emailed if something changes, workarounds are suggested, etc.).

I'll suggest a workaround for your 2nd problem, the dictionary, although I think that is specifically the kind of problem that should be fixed sooner than later as it is a primary resource for learning to use this language.

The workaround I'd suggest is Bernd's excellent 'tiny dictionary'. It is small, fast, can be resized easily, and can access all parts of the dictionary. As an alternative, James Hale's 'docset reader' is also an excellent replacement for the actual dictionary. Fair warning, after trying one or the other (or both), you may never want to see the stock dictionary again (I know when I am using a newer IDE, I don't use the dictionary :wink: ).

Either can be found on LiveCode Share, or by clicking on the 'User Samples' in the menu bar.
Sample Stacks_001.png
Research gems...
I don't think you could go wrong with either of these.
Image

richmond62
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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by richmond62 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:21 pm

Linux represents, optimistically, about 3% of desktop market share
On the other had Linux is the backbone of the internet.

https://itsfoss.com/linux-market-share/

"It is worthy to note that Linux distros dominate the market in
servers and embedded devices. Not to forget that Linux simply
rules super-computers with almost all of the top 500 supercomputers
running on Linux."
Last edited by richmond62 on Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bogs
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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by bogs » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:23 pm

Yes, but does Lc server have the same kind of issues with the backdrop? (I don't think so...)
Image

richmond62
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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by richmond62 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:25 pm

Just turn the backdrop OFF, FOREVER, as it is intrusive and little else.

If you want a backdrop for your standalone (always bearing in mind
that people with WIMP desktop interfaces tend to get cheesed off if that is hidden)
then roll your own with a substack.

dntknwjck
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Re: Tools Palette likes to disappear

Post by dntknwjck » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:41 pm

Thanks for the quick replies. I will try the dictionaries.
Always somewhat of a challenge starting something new and different.

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