A Little Message To The Developers RE: LiveCode 7.0.3

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Re: A Little Message To The Developers RE: LiveCode 7.0.3

Postby mickpitkin92 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:29 pm

Hi Mark, I was wondering if you could shed some light here as I wonder whether an issue I'm having may be connected to the arrays performance in some way:

I am working on my new project called Hydra, it is intended to be a console like PowerShell and Bash for Windows, Mac and Linux and with it, it has a simple menubar, consisting of a Console, Edit and Help menu along with a context menu that pops up whenever you right click the input or result fields and because the results field is intended to show results, it has the lockText property true but the traversalOn property on and the Context and Edit menus are setup to disable menu items that cannot be used in the read only field such as Undo, Cut, Paste and Delete and thus I have a simple MouseDown handler in the Results field that goes like this:

Code: Select all
On MouseDown pButton
   If pButton = 3 Then
      Disable MenuItem 1 Of Button 4 // Undo
      Disable MenuItem 3 Of Button 4 // Cut
      Disable MenuItem 5 Of Button 4 // Paste
      Disable MenuItem 6 Of Button 4 // Delete
      Popup Button 4
   End If
End MouseDown

When doing this, the menu pops up but it takes an extremely long time to do so, like it is hella noticable from a user perspective (About a second or two) and it seems to be the calls to Disable and Enable menu items and I was wondering if you could possibly give a thought about what could cause it, using an If statement like so:

Code: Select all
On MouseDown pButton
   If pButton = 3 Then
      If Character 1 Of Line 1 Of Button 4 <> "(" Then
         Put "(" Before Line 1 Of Button 4
      End If
      // Rinse repeat for lines 3, 5 and 6.
      If pButton = 3 Then]
         Popup Button 4
      End If
   End If
End MouseDown

Yields the same lag in popping up the context menu, additionally doing a MouseDown in the Edit menu to disable those menu items before it appears also yields lag, but once the menu items are disabled, the lag doesn't occur until I make a call to Enable them again, at which point it the delay occurs again. It seems new to LiveCode 7 as 6.x seemed to handle the context menu fine and so I wondered if it could be connected to the array delay (Hey hey, it rhymed) in some way?

DISCLAIMER: I'm having to take meds for my tonsils and I think they've just kicked in again, so I hope this looks like English to everyone.
Currently working on the Nix Operating System, an operating system that runs atop of Windows and Mac with the goal of providing an alternative to those systems without having to leave them whilst providing the features of a standard OS.
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Re: A Little Message To The Developers RE: LiveCode 7.0.3

Postby FourthWorld » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:29 pm

@runrevmark: Given that many of the use-cases requiring sorting array keys involves numeric keys, could we consider adding indexed arrays to compliment the associative arrays we have now?

I would imagine that some aspects of indexed arrays would be more performant as well, yes?

Even better: is there some clever trick you could do under the hood so that when the engine see that keys are always numeric it uses an indexed array rather than an associative one? That may be too tricky; if not, having separate syntax for the separate type of array would be fine.
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Re: A Little Message To The Developers RE: LiveCode 7.0.3

Postby FourthWorld » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:03 pm

@mickpitkin92: I think there may be something else going on there, as I tested your handler in v7.0.3 on OS X and Ubuntu and the popup appears instantly.

Do you have any frontScripts in play which may be handling mouseDown?
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Re: A Little Message To The Developers RE: LiveCode 7.0.3

Postby mickpitkin92 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:46 pm

Hi Richard,

Nope, it is on Windows 8.1 and it is nothing but the vanilla scripts that the IDE loads, I haven't tried it as a standalone so maybes I should do that, I just thought the engines would be unified in functionality such as those.

EDIT: Upon further inspection, it seems to only be in the IDE, compiling to a standalone, results in no lag. Crap, ma bad.
Currently working on the Nix Operating System, an operating system that runs atop of Windows and Mac with the goal of providing an alternative to those systems without having to leave them whilst providing the features of a standard OS.
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Re: A Little Message To The Developers RE: LiveCode 7.0.3

Postby FourthWorld » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:02 am

The runtime and IDE engines are almost exactly parallel, so it seems what you've found is a side-effect something in the IDE scripts.

When you have a moment, could you read every script in the IDE and let me know if you find it? :)

More seriously, it may be worth poking around in the frontScripts that begin with "rev" and see if there are mouseDown messages trapped there, and what they might be doing.

The odd thing though is that I don't see this here, raising a different question: do you have any plugins installed other than the ones that shipped with LC?
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Re: A Little Message To The Developers RE: LiveCode 7.0.3

Postby mickpitkin92 » Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:29 pm

That's what I figured would be the case, I'll take a gander at perusing the front scripts at some point today and see if they are trapping MouseDown or MouseUp. The only extra plugin I have loaded is one I made that has been kicking on since 5.5 and has never introduced any lag, it makes use of MouseDown but only when the plugin's main window has focus, the plugin main stack does live in the message path but it does not trap the MouseDown message nor any other message that would contribute such a lag.

I should note as well, that I have a rawKeyDown handler that looks for the Menu key code (Inbetween the right hand Ctrl+Win keys) and pops up the menu as well and that introduces the same kind of lag, so it is definitely in the Enable and Disable MenuItem commands in the IDE. It's baffling I know.
Currently working on the Nix Operating System, an operating system that runs atop of Windows and Mac with the goal of providing an alternative to those systems without having to leave them whilst providing the features of a standard OS.
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Re: A Little Message To The Developers RE: LiveCode 7.0.3

Postby LCMark » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:36 am

@FourthWorld: Leveraging the 'indexable' nature of some arrays was precisely what I was meaning.

At the moment 'sort' and 'filter' only operate on strings - both could be extended to arrays.

Filter could act on any array as it is not an ordered operation.

Sort is an ordering operation and so would only be able to act on arrays which have numeric keys. Indeed, the engine already has the idea of a 'sequence' array (this is an array which has integral numeric keys from 1...the number of elements)... Thus 'sort' could 'easily' act on such an array - the effect of sorting such an array would be to swap the values of the keys around so that they are ordered in the way you requested as you iterated from 1...the number of elements.

Ideally a number of things would be a little more competent in the engine. In particular, such sequence arrays would probably be implemented internally as a 'proper list' (i.e. a vector of values, rather than a mapping); and things which are essentially 'string lists' in the engine at the moment (e.g. the result of keys()) would not be turned into strings until they really needed to be. This 'lazy' string construction means that values will flow as far as they can before having to undergo a string conversion and accumulation - which is, in many cases, extra work that is not needed (and is, as we have seen from @malte's test stack, quite expensive!).
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Re: A Little Message To The Developers RE: LiveCode 7.0.3

Postby LCMark » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:37 am

@mickpitkin92: You can use the 'Suspend Development Tools' option in the IDE to get stacks to run more like they are running in a standalone. In this case it seems like there is an IDE script interacting with your scripts and causing the slow-down. If you file a bug then we'll be happy to take a look - hopefully we will be able to replicate the issue you are seeing :)
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