Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

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trenatos
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Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by trenatos » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:12 pm

I'd love to see an option for deploying to AmigaOS 4.1 and above.

I think there would be a ton new software created if there was and option for creating AmigaOS binaries.
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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by dave_probertGA6e24 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:30 pm

Personally I'd like to see RunRev spend a half million pounds on making Livecode deploy to the Sinclair ZX80. Or if that would be too difficult then the Sinclair Spectrum - at least that has colour!.

But while you're at it please consider doing a version for the Atari ST - I'm sure I can dig my old one out of the shed and it might just work!


Seriously though, how many people Actually run AmigaOS (in real life - not just in your head!) I see the AmigaOS Community forums have an Amazing 528 members. PowerPC support is minimal at best and the OS is a little Old (started in 1985 - nearly 30 years old)

Enjoy the thought.

Cheers,
Dave
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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by trenatos » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:43 pm

This is one of the problems, people have no idea.

AmigaOS 4.+ is a modern OS that is in active continued development and runs on modern hardware, with new hardware also in development.

http://www.amigaos.net/

You're right, the relatively new forum over at Hyperion only has 520 something members, but a lot of people are not on that forum (Me, for example) but are part of other Amiga groups and forums.

Looking at a small local Swedish forum I'm a member of, it has 1240 users.
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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by richmond62 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:57 am

Why would I pay for an operating system when I can have as many flavours of Linux as I want for free.

I cannot really see how AmigaOS is going to compete: to do so it must have something other than web-browsers and so on - a killer app
or two.

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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by trenatos » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:41 pm

richmond62, I don't see the point of your post.

This is the feature request area, no?

Well, my request is that LiveCode gets an option for deploying to AmigaOS.

Having LiveCode able to do so would boost the amount of programs for the AmigaOS, and hopefully help in creating those killer applications needed, because I don't disagree with you on that!

Right now there's a lot of work being done recreating what other operating systems have and can do, but not a whole lot in the innovation area.

I personally have ideas, but I'm not a C/C++ programmer, and that is the only real option for creating the things I have in mind at the moment, if LiveCode could create AOS binaries that would change.

Why pay for an OS? Because cost of purchase isn't the only factor when picking an OS.
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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by SteveTX » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:07 pm

Hey as long as we are pipedreaming about slowdeath platforms, can we also get LiveCode support for MeeGo, Palm, Symbian, Rim, and Windows Mobile?

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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by trenatos » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:24 pm

Interesting that there's so much negativity and BS around here.

What's the issue?

The more platforms supported, the more developers will use LC.

If LC supported AmigaOS more people would purchase a license, since there's currently nothing like it available (Except for Hollywood, which is not currently sold and is aimed at multimedia rather than application development).

Yes, AmigaOS is a minority OS, why is that an issue?

It's being actively developed and has a fanatic fanbase.

Instead of bashing my request, why not come up with better ones if you disagree?

What other systems would you like to see LC support?
Marcus

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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by dave_probertGA6e24 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:35 pm

Face it, AmigaOS (and many other 80's OS's) is dead. It's hanging on with a few thousand people still using it - because they think it's still cool. But the truth of the matter is that unless you can present an OS that has a million users or more then it's not viable for any company to spend their money on supporting it. $10,000 spent on getting support for AmigaOS would be better spent on getting more features available/fixed for all the other current OS's (Windows, OSX, Linux, Android and iOS) - each of which have a much bigger market share (many millions) and therefore a better return on investment.

Personally I would rather RunRev spent money on implementing OpenGL 3D :)

But that is not saying that you can't do it yourself. As LC is now Open Source, you could start to do your own implementation of the Deployer for AmigaOS - what's stopping you?

The above is not Negative - just the facts (from someone who does not have a vested interest in it).

As I said before it's an interesting thought, but don't go on and on about it - because no-one is going to take you seriously.

Cheers,
Dave
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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by trenatos » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:49 pm

AmigaOS 4.1 is not from the 80's, it's a modern OS.

The ORIGINAL AmigaOS is from the 80's, just like Windows I believe, but just like Windows 1.0 has nothing to do with Windows 8, AmigaOS 1.0 has nothing to do with AmigaOS 4.

And I agree, the more features the better, but again I only see it as a positive to have LC support as many platforms as possible, it's one of the big draws, being able to cross-develop with the click of a button.

There's an Open Source version of LC, which requires you to release your software Open Source.

Even if I were to create a module or whatever to add AmigaOS deployment option, it too would force people to release their software Open Source, not something everyone agrees with.

And since the deployer would be made following the same license as LC, it can't be used in the commercially licensed version of LC either.

It's a loose loose if you want to create closed source applications.

None of us has the final decision as to what RunRev does, all we can do is suggest and make *requests*.

And yes, there's a bunch of negativity and BS in this part of the forum, the rest of the forum seems pretty great, but the requests area is full of people complaining and whining. lol

You don't want RunRev spending money on something? Uh, too bad? Not your decision, just as it's not mine, all I did was make a request for something I'd like to see, which is what I thought this part of the forum was about.
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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by trenatos » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:52 pm

Going on and on?
I'm just replying to people being dicks for no reason :)

Why am I not making a compiler for LC -> AmigaOS?
Because I don't know how, but I figured I'd make a *request* in the *request* area of LCs forum.
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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by dave_probertGA6e24 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:18 am

To quote from the front page of AmigaOS.net website (the first hit when doing a search for AmigaOS on Google):
The authentic Amiga experience with the original Amiga Operating System.

AmigaOS dates back to 1985 with the introduction of the landmark A1000 platform. Today, AmigaOS has made the leap to several brand new PowerPC based hardware platforms and is still evolving.
Note that this site states that it is referring to AmigaOS 4.1.

-----

Using the Open Source software to access the internals of the LC system to write your additional code does not mean that everyone needs to release their code as Open Source. If you submitted a change back into the main codebase for LC then it can be added to the Commercial version with which people could release closed source Apps. Unless you specify otherwise in your extra code addition to LC.

BTW, check a dictionary for the difference between 'loose' and 'lose'.

-----

The forum here is not a tool to contact RunRev - it's a tool for Users to Discuss ideas and solve problems - like most forums. You can make 'requests', but you are actually simply posting a message on a forum for any of us Users to see and Comment on.

If there is interest in your 'request' then people of a like mind might respond with favourable messages, otherwise they might ignore you or make a counter suggestion. So far you have not really had any other AmigaOS users from this forum respond with support for your idea.

Remember that just because a system can deploy to a particular OS is not the end of that task. If the target OS changes (ref: Apple iOS !) then LC has to be made compatible with it again. So it's not really a simple task to undertake, but a long-term commitment for any company. And if there are only a few people purchasing the system for use with that OS then it makes it less likely that there will be enough revenue generated to support that feature.

-----

Nothing above is BS or negative - just facts. Once you can present valid facts (numbers, figures, links and articles) that suggest that the AmigaOS is not just a niche, fan-based OS, but a valid main-stream, revenue generating, current OS then I'm sure that someone might take note. Until then it's just an interesting thought - though unlikely to happen.

Calling people Dicks just because they don't agree with your point of view is not a good way of getting your message across to anyone. It makes you look childish. I am assuming that you are not actually a child of course.

But the most notable problem for LC to support AmigaOS is that with no 3D graphics capability in LC people cannot properly produce the bouncing chequered balls apps that everyone knows and need to make!!! ;)

Cheers,
Dave
A person who started programming (on a home-built kit ZX80) in 1980. Continued with Atari ST (and Amiga briefly) during the late 80's. Went on to RISC-OS in the 90's. Ended up with Windross through the 2000's and has settled (currently) with the Mac.
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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by trenatos » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:35 am

I think I do pretty ok with the English language seeing as it's my second language, even though I messed up loose vs lose.

This is not a forum for contacting RunRev? Then what's the whole idea with the *request* forum? To "request" features from fellow programmers rather than the company behind LC?

Amiga is a niche, part of the problem is the good ol' catch-22, there's not enough people using it, because there isn't enough good/awesome/whatever software for it, and developers are less likely to spend time creating such software on a niche platform with few users.

I'm perfectly aware of the undertaking it would be for RunRev to enable compiling for AmigaOS, but again this is simply a *request* forum, nothing more and nothing less, and unless someone makes a request, the idea is not likely to pass the minds of the developers at RunRev, the alternative is for noone to say anything in the hopes that they will randomly think of the same idea as you, which brings me back to the point that there is this *request* forum here.

Yep, AmigaOS hearkens back to 1985, so does Windows "Microsoft introduced an operating environment named Windows on November 20, 1985" <- Wikipedia.

That doesn't mean that the current OS, be it AmigaOS 4 or Windows 8 is old, decrepit, or will run on 30 year old hardware, something previous posters seems to not have understood.

If I were to create a module (Or whatever it's called in LC) that lets it create binaries for AmigaOS, I'm certain that would make developers buy LC to develop AmigaOS applications, which would make RunRev money on something I created, not me, and that's not something I'm likely to do.

The main reason I'm being pissy, is that instead of anyone asking questions or making counter-requests, it's been bashing, misinformation, and pure BS in response to my initial post, and I honestly do not understand why.

I called people dicks, not because they disagreed with my views, but because they were acting like dicks, big difference.

The bottom line is this: I think LiveCode is great, and will be using it to release open source and closed sourced software, and I think a tool such as LC would make a tremendous difference for the AmigaOS platform in terms of new software created and I think it would bring RunRev fresh income from a platform they hadn't even thought of before.
Last edited by trenatos on Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Marcus

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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by mluka » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:07 pm

SteveTX wrote:Hey as long as we are pipedreaming about slowdeath platforms, can we also get LiveCode support for MeeGo, Palm, Symbian, Rim, and Windows Mobile?
Hi all.

Didn't see Apple's Newton in the list...

Regards! ;-)
Michel
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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by jacque » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:01 pm

The problem here is that RR need to carefully balance their resources against projected income. If there aren't enough paying customers to support the effort required to build and maintain another engine, they can't do it. Building support for an entire OS is more than just a "module", it's a heavy-duty engine remake, and it takes time and money, comitted over a long period of time. For that reason, RR has dropped support for half a dozen Unix platforms it used to provide, because there aren't enough users to pay for the upkeep.

So to be feasible, you'd need to find out how many paying customers would give real money for such a product. If it exceeds the amount of money it takes to create and maintain another platform, then RR is likely to consider it.
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw dot com
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Re: Deploy to AmigaOS 4.1+

Post by richmond62 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:12 pm

I am also "a nut" about various dead or dying operating systems (I would like to see Livecode on RISC OS 5 and available, again, for Mac OS 8 and 9), but as the designer and developer of a very clever program for doing very clever things with Sanskrit that, despite all its cleverness and thousands of repeat Demo downloads has brought me the sum total of 250 dollars (and 100 of those were a very generous donation), I have learnt the hard way about the discrepancy between what I want and what market forces do (and that, my dears, is at the tender age of 51). That does not stop me being, at heart, a "small is beautiful" capitalist.

I had my own patch of rude words and so forth hereabouts (about 12 years ago) and all I did was damage myself, and stopped people listening to what I had to say.

Calling people 'dicks' will turn people right off you, as it is purile and rude.

Now I live in a country that until 1990 enjoyed a one party state where people were not allowed to express opinions; that attitude is still being propagated through what passes for an education system here (i.e. a didactic
"fact" forcing arrangement where creativity and individual thought are mocked, derided and suppressed). I, in my "real job" (i.e. the one that puts bread and cheese on the table), battle against this horrible, fossilised, bullying "education"
system everyday; and would not feel unduly disquieted morally about guillotining about 90% of the teachers in this country.

I really wonder if "trenatos" doesn't have this sort of background, where nothing has prepared him/her for the possibility that people who disagree with him/her might not be "steaming cretins". This is what 'teachers' do to children every day
of the week over here.

So, the flame war has to stop; right now.

Because, however many "wonks" and "wierdos" there maybe on this forum and the use-list, and lurking in the Livecode "underbrush", on the whole they behave like a civilised bunch towards each other, respect their opinions
and avoid being rude.

Runtime Revolution have done an incredible thing, releasing an Open Source version of their product (I know, I helped finance it); but, when push comes to shove they have to have bread and cheese on the table at the week's end,
and as, unlike me, they don't have other jobs to pay for that, they do depend on their commercial version. So, expecting RunRev to release versions of Livecode for what we might like to, tactfully, term, minority platforms, is asking
rather a lot of them.

AND, while I'm here; how about a version of Livecode for the GEM GUI on FreeDOS? Let the love flow :)

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